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Armored Cavalry Regiment TO&E?

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  • Cowboy31a
    replied
    As i go through my research, I have noticed how US has continually under used the capabilities of its cavalry.

    This has been true since the branch was established.

    During World War II, most of the mechanized cavalry was held at Corps level. They spent a lot of time working in the rear and acting as an "information" service for the commanders. They ran back and forth reporting on positions of their own command.

    They also spent a lot of time in screening operations. They would move along the flank that was exposed to the enemy, brushing aside light resistance, taking bridgeheads, and acting as security to warn of possible enemy advances on the flank.

    They also became a "fire brigade" that was used to fill gaps in the line. They were the "economy of force". Rapid movement allowed them to get around the field as needed.

    But, the true value of cavalry is its recon work. Here is where American generals failed. They failed to use the rapid movement of mechanized cavalry. It was used this way in only 3% of its missions.

    When working in security and economy of force operations, the Cavalry Groups had to have other units attached. The Cavalry Group was the center of a Task Force.

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  • Cowboy31a
    replied
    After going through the task force structure that Rottman talks about in the book, i see the genesis behind the 1948 ACR's. they are as much a product of World War II as was the redesigned divisions.

    the Task Forces built around the Cavalry Group usually had a battalion of field artillery attached along with a company to battalion of Tank Destroyers or Medium tanks, and also with a company to upto two battalions of engineers to do the usual combat engineering and also to act as infantry for the task force.

    When the first board recommendation came out, the board wanted a force structure that included a full company of "dragoons" in the regiment.

    but the final setup is what i described earlier. All in all, the new ACR was built around the experiences of the cavalry group of World War II. the idea was to add the support to the new regiment that was generally habitually assigned to the cavalry group.
    Last edited by Cowboy31a; 06 Jul 12, 07:38.

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  • Cowboy31a
    replied
    I was in Oklahoma City today, so I stopped by the bookstore I usually buy from and low and behold there was a book the guy had set to the side for me. (several actually). This book was on armored cav during World War II. It is another osprey title, I find Osprey to be decent books.

    But if you are interested in a concise book on armored cav in world War II, this one would be for you. It also goes along way in helping understand the layout of the new ACR units in the 1948 reorganization. by seeing the task force structure that was normally built around a Cavalry Group, you can see the logic of why the new ACR was formed to be a self contained battle group.

    This book helps clear up some of my questions.


    Rottman, G. L. (2012). World War II US Cavalry Groups: European Theater (Vol. Elite #129). Oxford: Osprey Publishing Co.

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  • lcm1
    replied
    Originally posted by Cowboy31a View Post
    I find it interesting that the Armored Cavalry Regiment is still a strong component of the US Army today. This proves that the ideas that were laid down for mechanized cavalry in World War II still holds today. Modern Cavalry is still working on the lines laid down in the 1948 tables. Of course they have been modified, but the principles still hold true.

    In the 1948 incarnation of the Armored Cavalry Regiment the line recon units (Cavalry Troops) were made up of three "mixed platoons". These platoons had a platoon HQ with a jeep, a scouting section with four jeeps, a support section with two jeeps with 81 mm mortars plus a M39 AUV that carried a rifle squad, and the last section of the platoon was a light tank section armed with two M24 light tanks.

    Each platoon was usually operated in two scouting teams and a command team. The usual scouting team usually operated as two scouting jeeps, a mortar jeep and a light tank. The command team was usually formed with the command jeep and the M39. The rifle squad acted as the platoon mobile reserve when something needed looked at closer then the jeeps could do it.
    I believe there was something similar in being with the British Cavalry Regiments during the 2nd WW but I could be wrong. lcm1

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  • Cowboy31a
    replied
    First off, I have to correct my post. It was the 2nd ACR that fought 73 Easting.

    Yes Pruitt, this downsizing and conversion to light units is going to eventually bite us in the ass. It is a sad state when the Marine Corps, God bless them, who are meant to be "light units" have become the heavy divisions of our present force structure...

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  • Pruitt
    replied
    Converting heavy units to "light" also solves the "problem" of vehicle maintenance for National Guard units. The Louisiana National Guard had to keep its Abrams and Bradleys up at Fort Polk, because Regular Army mechanics maintained them. Now the 256th Infantry Brigade (Light) has no heavy vehicles and indeed almost no trucks! Trucks are not called for on a Light Infantry TOE. The Fires Battalion does get some and I bet the 108th Cavalry has two troops of Humvees.

    What chaps my posterior is the Army sold off the trucks from the Brigade to civilians! I saw a 5 ton truck working highway construction/repair on I-210. I believe the Army has also sold off some Abrams and Bradleys to foreign countries.

    We need some of the old Heavy Armored Cavalry Regiments in the Regulars and National Guard. Where there was once at least seven of these, I think we are down to just the 3rd ACR. The Guard ACR's are being converted to other type units.

    Pruitt

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  • Cowboy31a
    replied
    Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
    Keep in mind that the US Army deleted a Troop from each Squadron/Battalion as a way to save money before WW 2. All Cavalry Regiments fought under this set up. I don't have the TOE for the Mechanized Regiments handy. The First Cavalry Division went into Combat with two Brigades of two Regiments each and was still smaller than a regular Infantry Division. I am sure the 26th Cavalry Regiment (Philippine Scouts) could have used three more Horse troops! The 112th and 124th Cavalry regiments had severe problems in they had only 6 Companies/Troops of Infantry instead of 9. I think they were short heavy weapons as well.

    Not all Armored Cavalry Regiments today are equal. The 2nd ACR was converted to Light Cavalry and lost its Bradleys and Abrams. They mostly use Humvees now. Last I looked they wanted to convert the Heavy ACR to usr LAV's. They lost a great deal of firepower when the Armored Gun System (M-8 Buford) was cancelled. That LAV with the naked automatic 105 is not going to do as well.

    Pruitt
    In this downsized Army, a lot of heavy units are being converted to a light configuration. I am, and will never be, a supporter of the Stryker concept. I believe the US Army is getting away from one very important thing. They are forgetting that war can very easily break out on the Central plain of Europe again. I don't think these light units are fit for that. . That is just an opinion.

    These light units may work for the type of fighting we are in now against insurgents that don't have heavy equipment, but back in 1990-91 and 2001-02, I don't think we could have done the "cavalry" style of war without those heavy units that led the way. Would the 3rd ACR at the battle 73 Easting have been able to stop a division of Iraqi tanks with Hummvees or LAVs. It was the ability of the M1A1 Abrams and the TOW missiles fired from the M3 Bradley CFV that did that work.

    There will be a time when we have to face tanks again and this new "light" army won't be able to handle that battlefield.

    Yes, I know the trend right now is "brush fire" wars and insurgencies, but there will come a time when we need heavy units and we wont have the army equipped or trained for it.

    Yes, I see the point that some might make, that 'heavy' units are expensive to maintain, equip and train, but the price of freedom just isn't eternal vigilance...but also has to be bought with money and sometimes life.

    I am not saying not to have Stryker brigades, but we can't sacrifice heavy units in the process.

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  • Pruitt
    replied
    Keep in mind that the US Army deleted a Troop from each Squadron/Battalion as a way to save money before WW 2. All Cavalry Regiments fought under this set up. I don't have the TOE for the Mechanized Regiments handy. The First Cavalry Division went into Combat with two Brigades of two Regiments each and was still smaller than a regular Infantry Division. I am sure the 26th Cavalry Regiment (Philippine Scouts) could have used three more Horse troops! The 112th and 124th Cavalry regiments had severe problems in they had only 6 Companies/Troops of Infantry instead of 9. I think they were short heavy weapons as well.

    Not all Armored Cavalry Regiments today are equal. The 2nd ACR was converted to Light Cavalry and lost its Bradleys and Abrams. They mostly use Humvees now. Last I looked they wanted to convert the Heavy ACR to usr LAV's. They lost a great deal of firepower when the Armored Gun System (M-8 Buford) was cancelled. That LAV with the naked automatic 105 is not going to do as well.

    Pruitt

    Leave a comment:


  • Cowboy31a
    replied
    I find it interesting that the Armored Cavalry Regiment is still a strong component of the US Army today. This proves that the ideas that were laid down for mechanized cavalry in World War II still holds today. Modern Cavalry is still working on the lines laid down in the 1948 tables. Of course they have been modified, but the principles still hold true.

    In the 1948 incarnation of the Armored Cavalry Regiment the line recon units (Cavalry Troops) were made up of three "mixed platoons". These platoons had a platoon HQ with a jeep, a scouting section with four jeeps, a support section with two jeeps with 81 mm mortars plus a M39 AUV that carried a rifle squad, and the last section of the platoon was a light tank section armed with two M24 light tanks.

    Each platoon was usually operated in two scouting teams and a command team. The usual scouting team usually operated as two scouting jeeps, a mortar jeep and a light tank. The command team was usually formed with the command jeep and the M39. The rifle squad acted as the platoon mobile reserve when something needed looked at closer then the jeeps could do it.

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  • Cowboy31a
    replied
    Well from what i have found out the reorginzed Constabulary Regiments followed the TOE 17-51 (1948) I am not sure what the squadron breakdown of the littered troops were, but the ACRs had three squadrons, each squadron have four cavalry recon troops, a medium tank troop and an assault gun troop.

    This gave the Regiment 18 operational "line companies" and three headquarter companies. That is a total of 21 companies\troops. later on three line companies were redacted from the TOE. leaving 15 line companies. There were 9 Cavalry Recon Troops, 3 Medium tank Companies, and 3 Assault Gun Companies. On Regiment level the command had a HHT and Service Troop.

    This TOE was based on the wartime Cavalry Reconnaissance Group TOE. In this TOE Group had two squadrons usually assigned.

    Each Squadron had four (Troops A to D) recon companies, a light Tank Company (E) and an a 75mm M8 HMC assault gun company (F). The Squadron headquarters troop had an AT section armed with 57mm AT Guns, an admin section, and services platoon.

    The ACR modified TOE replaced the M8 armored cars in the Recon Troops with M24 light tanks. The Tank Company was equipped with M4 Medium tanks and the assault gun company received 105mm HMC assault guns.

    Each of the Constabulary Brigades converted one Constabulary Regiment to an ACR in 1948. These units became the fast mobile reserves of the brigades. They would have been used to screen and slow down Soviet forces, while 15th US Army and later 7th US Army could form up to counter the Soviet drive.

    In 1949 a FA Group of Three Armored Artillery Battalians were added to the Constabulary. This gave each Brigade a full Battalion of SP 105mm guns to support its three Regiments with.

    The 1948-49 reorganization marked the US Constabulary's transition from an occupying force to a defense force. This transition would be completed with the deactivation of US Constabulary HQ in 1950, and by 1952 all elements of the Constabulary were deactivated or converted to combat elements in the 7th US Army.

    It should also be pointed out That the 4th Constabulary Regiment was also converted to an ACR in 1949. The 4th Constabulary Regiment provided the troops in the American sector of West Berlin and the other two squadrons of the Regiment were assigned to Austria. This Regiment did not report to the US Zone Constabulary. Eventually the entire 4th Regiment was pulled into Berlin and became the Berlin Brigade in later years.

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  • Thunder Dome
    replied
    http://www.history.army.mil/html/for...onstab-ip.html

    http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...EVeR4oTBX0xr-g

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  • Cowboy31a
    started a topic Armored Cavalry Regiment TO&E?

    Armored Cavalry Regiment TO&E?

    Ok I believe this would protein to World War II subject area, because the question is does anyone have the TOE for the Armored Cavalry Regiments that were formed in the US Constabulary in 1947.

    For those who don't know the US Constabulary was the main force of occupation in the US Zone of Occupation of Germany and Austria.

    As the policing duties as the Constabulary gradually gave way to the needs of a defensive tactical force several of the Constabulary Regiments were reorganized into the ACRs. I am looking for the TOE of that reorginzation into ACRs. And help would be appreciated.

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