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  • Kangaroos.

    Just read a reasonable amount on these afv's. Any thoughts before I add my 2 cents.
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    Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

  • #2
    If you are referring to the conversion of Ram tanks to Infantry taxis, I think it was a most economical use of resources.

    Pruitt
    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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    • #3
      Some good sources:
      http://www.canadiankangaroos.ca/Site/1CACR.html
      http://www.canadiankangaroos.ca/Site...y_Booklet.html

      https://wartimecanada.ca/sites/defau.../Kangaroos.pdf
      https://scholars.wlu.ca/cmh/vol4/iss2/5/

      Good source for information on the conversion process:
      http://rcemecorpsgemrc.ca/wp-content...50_Feb2010.pdf

      cankan_csewell.jpg
      Out of print now but still the best book on the subject.

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      • #4
        I agree with Pruitt. It was a practical conversion to quickly meet a need.
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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        • #5
          While hardly an original idea, it provided an APC quickly when the need was there.

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          • #6

            I am interested in these vehicles too as I recall that the CW command actually tried to accumulate critical masses of them for operations and not use them up in one go. They were more valuable than the actual Shermans, which were plentiful.

            Since their debut in TOTALIZE, the Kangaroo seemed to have operational value- like the proto-Brummbars in Stalingrad they were quickly set up to fulfill a tactical need that conditions in the field revealed. They were developed to counter the late war problem of halftracks being too easily to knock out en masse and problems with infantry-armor coordination. Also, the well known german tactics of separating the infantry from the armor.

            It seems that in breakthrough battles in particular, the halftrack was not doing the job especially in dealing with heavily armed enemies. From the US and German POVs they describe them as moving coffins.
            Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
            Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
            Barbarossa Derailed I & II
            Battle of Kalinin October 1941

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            • #7
              HTs were more defense/movement orientated... not as offensive attacking units.
              SPORTS FREAK/ PANZERBLITZ COMMANDER/ CC2 COMMANDER

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              • #8
                Originally posted by dgfred View Post
                HTs were more defense/movement orientated... not as offensive attacking units.
                when they were used offensively, they were deployed "mad max" style. In my research they worked better in a fluid situation (most vitally, with the element of surprise), in a maneuver friendly environment, and when the enemy defense was soft. They were in trouble when they ran into hardened defense with good AT weapons and heavy MGs and in even worse trouble if they ran into armor.
                Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                Battle of Kalinin October 1941

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post

                  when they were used offensively, they were deployed "mad max" style. In my research they worked better in a fluid situation (most vitally, with the element of surprise), in a maneuver friendly environment, and when the enemy defense was soft. They were in trouble when they ran into hardened defense with good AT weapons and heavy MGs and in even worse trouble if they ran into armor.
                  Good point.the \kangaroo was also a great way to use up obsolete armored vehicles. \the \ram tank, for instance was designed wiht a turret to take a 2 pdr tank gun. \while it could , in theory, take an upgrade, there were \Sherman tanks flowing into Europe, with \centaurs close behind.

                  It could have been used for training and village morale parades,but-
                  My beloved \covenanter owned that role....
                  The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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                  • #10
                    It isn't as if the US didn't do this too...





                    The US though didn't use them so much for APC's as just prime movers and haulers. US doctrine didn't envision troops riding an armored vehicle into battle but rather saw APC's as "battle taxi's" for use in getting the infantry close to the front so they didn't have to walk there.

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                    • #11
                      The British also removed the 105mm Howitzer from the Priests they got and used them in the same way. They even added a plate to the hole in the front! These vehicles did have a bit more armor than the Kangaroo, and I think they carried more troops.

                      Pruitt
                      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                      Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                      by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                        The British also removed the 105mm Howitzer from the Priests they got and used them in the same way. They even added a plate to the hole in the front! These vehicles did have a bit more armor than the Kangaroo, and I think they carried more troops.

                        Pruitt
                        The priest was the first Kangaroo, and used by the Canadians in 1944, 72 of them for Totalize. Unfortunately they were only a loan, and in NWE, no Kangaroos were permanently attached. Using mild steel from a local supplier in Caen (iirc), the additional armour consisted of two metal plates sandwiching a layer of sand, which at least gives protection from shell splinters and HEAT weapons.

                        The first real use of these being deployed really effectively was during Grapeshot in Italy 1945, where a 'Kangaroo Army' was employed. Given that a APC design was available at the end of WW1 in the Mark IX, there is no excuse for the British not deploying such weapons earlier. In comparison, the French did have an APC for use in its DCR, although it should be noted that the balance between armour and infantry was extremely lobsided in that unit.

                        2dcr.gif
                        http://enpointe.perso.infonie.fr/2dcr.gif
                        How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                        Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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