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  • Originally posted by Artyom_A;n51665
    76
    That's an urban legend. Different tanks (e.g. T-34 and KV) had different types of gearboxes which had little common. Early T-34 gearbox was mostly based on Christie design.
    the t 34 had the huge advantage of being designed and built by my underappreciated fellow Ukrainians...

    In all fairness, American tank powertrains were head and shoulders the worlds' best in the 1930-40's. I've always suspected that some covert aid was provided

    The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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    • Originally posted by marktwain View Post

      the t 34 had the huge advantage of being designed and built by my underappreciated fellow Ukrainians...
      They were almost not involved in design and construction.
      There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

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      • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

        They were almost not involved in design and construction.
        were too.
        Ukrainians invented the concept of welding armor parts together, while our brethren to the north were still experimenting with copper brazing and lead solder...
        The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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        • They also dug the Blakc Sea...
          There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

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          • Originally posted by Emtos View Post
            https://warspot.ru/3207-tselesoobraz...entralizovanno

            About the problems with the use of IS-2 in half-a-year after introduction. Google stranslate should do it.
            Interesting article, but only the last quote has a source. What is the source(s) to the previous quotes?
            Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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            • Originally posted by Artyom_A View Post
              In most cases ammo load was larger than prescribed in regulations and manuals at the expense of internal space. That applies to IS as well. Numbers you can find in tank books are actually the minimal ammunition loads.

              Usually a shot fired from a 122-mm gun produced such a heavy cloud of smoke and dust that it was impossible to see a heck from a tank and make any aiming at the target until this cloud dispersed or until a tank moved to another position. In any cases the rate of fire was limited irrespective of technical characteristics of the gun. Point No.2 - due to a strength of recoil IS-122 couldn't deliver fire while moving (which was a normal mode of operation for medium tanks like T-34), only from a halt or stationary position. In combination with smaller speed that meant that it couldn't approach to the attack objective as fast as medium tanks. So limited speed, limited maneuverability, limited rate of fire, limited ammunition load -> prescribed employment in the second wave. Yet, it should be remembered that actual practice could be very different from regulations (and not always for good).
              Agree, in combat soldiers will improvise by carrying extra rounds, but it is often with a sacrifice in space for the operator to work efficiently. I could see with only 28 rounds going into a combat operations designed to penetrate to the operational depth would be worrisome. Do you have a source on how long it took to reload and IS-2? Especially, if the resupply had to catch up with the advancing tanks.
              Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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              • Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                They also dug the Blakc Sea...
                Even Russians dug holiday on the Black Sea!Maybe we get it slightly off topic.......



                The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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                • Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post

                  Interesting article, but only the last quote has a source. What is the source(s) to the previous quotes?
                  It was certainly taken from the reports and archives. Ulanov is pretty good when it comes to sources but on this website they aren't always present. Last quote is part of the second report:

                  https://paul-atrydes.livejournal.com/177826.html

                  Basically, IS-2 were considered as similar to ISU-122/152 in use and tactics.
                  There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

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                  • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                    It was certainly taken from the reports and archives. Ulanov is pretty good when it comes to sources but on this website they aren't always present. Last quote is part of the second report:

                    https://paul-atrydes.livejournal.com/177826.html

                    Basically, IS-2 were considered as similar to ISU-122/152 in use and tactics.
                    Thanks for the reply. Artyom and I have discussed the contemporary Russian historians' footnoting. One author blamed the publisher for dropping citations.
                    Last edited by R.N. Armstrong; 21 Jan 20, 01:43.
                    Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by marktwain View Post

                      the t 34 had the huge advantage of being designed and built by my underappreciated fellow Ukrainians...

                      In all fairness, American tank powertrains were head and shoulders the worlds' best in the 1930-40's. I've always suspected that some covert aid was provided
                      I disagree. Between the Meteor (Merlin) and Merritt Brown (drivetrain esp gearbox) designs, I would definitely go British here, although, I would build it in the USA.
                      How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                      Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
                        Especially, if the resupply had to catch up with the advancing tanks.
                        The problem was not only a time needed to reload the ammunition but also difficulty of doing that on the battlefield (hostile observation and fire, vulnerability and limited cross-country mobility of supply trucks). Also infantry and infantry commanders were always very nervous about tanks retreating to the rear even temporarily for resupply. Practically either tanks were reloaded at night, or they were withdrawn from battlefield by shifts, or sometimes ammunition boxes were loaded on tank which transported them to battle lines. It appears from various after-action reports that there were cases when more than on ammunition load was consumed on one day during particularly intensive actions, although they were by no means typical.

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                        • For illustrations of these points:
                          Practice demonstrated that one ammunition load is sometimes too small for offensive combat. It is needed to prepare tanks, including ammunition, for combat in advance and and think how to store two two ammunition loads in a tank. Ammunition boxes should be opened and [additional rounds] two ammunition loads should be carefully laid on them. Empty cases shouldn't be kept in tanks but should immediately thrown away. For operations in tactical depth tanks need to carry two 200-kg barrels with gasoil and one barrel with oil. When ammunition and fuel are expended they should be transported immediately to the tank at nighttime. When the situation doesn't allow to transport them on trucks it is needed to employ tanks or tank tractors. It is necessary to have a special party for hauling ammunition. After ammunition is transported to tanks the vehicles should be unloaded in 10-15 minuted in order not to stay there for a long time. For reloading ammunition and fuel it is necessary to use short lulls in hostile fire.
                          And regarding signalling:
                          In combat a company or platoon commander leads his tanks and adjusts their fire only by radio. In no case commands should be given by flags or rockets. First of all, a tank commander cannot always notice a flag or a rocket, and then, when a flag appears on a commander's tank, the enemy concentrate his fire on it and knocks it out leaving the unit without leadership.
                          (general conclusions from experience of the war of the 17 Guards Mechanized Brigade)

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                          • Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                            https://warspot.ru/3207-tselesoobraz...entralizovanno

                            About the problems with the use of IS-2 in half-a-year after introduction. Google stranslate should do it.
                            Disagree, as evidenced by your previous post.

                            Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                            https://warspot.ru/3207-tselesoobraz...entralizovanno

                            About the problems with the use of IS-2 in half-a-year after introduction. Google stranslate should do it.
                            It should be noted that theoretical power and mobility and actual performance can differ. For example, in 1943 while KV-1's were being removed from T-34 units, theoretically slower Churchills were being added, such as in the the 5th GTA at Kursk.

                            R N Armstrong can also cite 15 Churchills being used with T-34's in crossing the Desna (p408 in his book Red Army Tank Commanders).
                            How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                            Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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                            • Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
                              One possible tactical mistake in these orders concerns the use of heavy spg's and tanks. These are stated to follow the medium tanks in an attack to deal with threats as they occur.
                              Compare with the Red Army's field manual (project, 1942):
                              Separate tank units attached to an army or division form an infantry (or cavalry) support group.
                              Battle formations of tank support groups should be echeloned in depth. Heavy and medium tanks as a rule form the first tank echelon. The second echelon is composed of light tanks.
                              when "heavy tanks" meant mostly KV.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
                                For example, in 1943 while KV-1's were being removed from T-34 units, theoretically slower Churchills were being added, such as in the the 5th GTA at Kursk.
                                Churchills and KV tanks were assigned to the same role in heavy tank regiments and were considered more or less interchangeable.

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