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German tank production plans 1945 and tank destroyers in tank units

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  • German tank production plans 1945 and tank destroyers in tank units

    I have two questions.

    1. Does somebody have the German armor production plans for 1945 ? I seen it somewhere but cannot find.

    2. Did German used tank destroyers/assault guns in tank companies instead of tanks ? Not in panzerjager role but in tank units. How much units did this ?

    Thnak you.
    There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

  • #2
    Originally posted by Emtos View Post
    2. Did German used tank destroyers/assault guns in tank companies instead of tanks ?
    Yeap:
    https://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn1177fg1nov44.htm

    A new organization of the panzergrenadier division issued in the autumn 1943 included a tank battalions equipped with 45 StuG assault guns. About the same time some tank divisions were also equipped with a mixture of tanks and assault guns. In particular 14 Panzerdivision arrived to the Eastern Front in October 1943 having a mixture of Pz-IV and StuGs. A volume II of "Panzertruppen" by T.Yentz has a relevant experience report.

    1. Does somebody have the German armor production plans for 1945 ?
    Have you checked Germans docs in Russia?

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    • #3
      It was probably there where I saw it. I cannot remember however how it was called and if it was part of some big document.
      There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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      • #4
        Note that Pz-IV/70 was officially referred as "tank" despite a lack of rotating turret. I guess, it was considered as a replacement for "normal" panzers

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Artyom_A View Post
          Note that Pz-IV/70 was officially referred as "tank" despite a lack of rotating turret. I guess, it was considered as a replacement for "normal" panzers
          Given that the first AFV's to be called tanks did not have rotating turrets and numbers of 'tanks' were built between the wars without rotating turrets then a tank doesn't have to have one to be a tank
          Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
          Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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          • #6
            What Guderian wanted in November 44:
            http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/r...inspect/zoom/7

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            • #7
              Thank you. I think it was called the emergency program of 1945 or something like that.
              There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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              • #8
                "Sturm" program from January 45:
                http://panzer-elmito.org/panzertrupp...01-1945_D.html

                Emergency program from files of the General Inspector of tank troops:
                http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/r...inspect/zoom/8

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                • #9
                  Thank you very much. Didn't they planned the production up to 1946 ?
                  There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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                  • #10
                    Jagdpanzer IV and Hetzer took over the AFV market right?
                    Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                    Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                    Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                    Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I don't think that planning into 1946 could be of any practical value.
                      AFV production expected by Herreswaffenamt on 1 March 1945:

                      Auflklärer 38D:
                      5.45 - 5
                      6.45 - 5
                      7.45 - 10
                      8.45 - 20

                      Panzer IV/43/48
                      3.45 - 180
                      4.45 - 200
                      5.45 - 100

                      Panzer IV/70 (V)
                      3.45 - 180
                      4.45 - 200
                      5.45 - 200
                      6.45 - 200
                      7.45 - 150
                      8.45 - 150

                      Flakpanzer IV/3.7cm
                      3.45 - 37
                      4.45 - 30
                      5.45 -30

                      Flakpanzer IV/3cm Zw.
                      3.45 - 8
                      4.45 - 10
                      5.45 - 30
                      6.45 - 30
                      7.45 - 30
                      8.45 - 30

                      Mun.Fzg. IV
                      3.45 - 10
                      4.45 - 10
                      5.45 - 10
                      6.45 - 9
                      7.45 - 9

                      Panther
                      3.45 - 175
                      4.45 - 200
                      5.45 - 200
                      6.45 - 200
                      7.45 - 200

                      Bergepanther
                      3.45 - 25
                      4.45 - 25
                      5.45 - 25
                      6.45 - 25

                      Tiger II
                      3.45 - 45
                      4.45 - 50
                      5.45 - 65
                      6.45 - 70
                      7.45 - 80
                      8.45 - 80

                      Stug.III
                      3.45 - 170
                      4.45 - 220
                      5.45 - 220
                      6.45 - 300
                      7.45 - 130

                      Stug.IV
                      3.45 - 50
                      4.45 - 60
                      5.45 - 60
                      6.45 - 68

                      Stu.H. 42
                      3.45 - 80
                      4.45 - 90
                      5.45 - 80

                      Strum-Panzer
                      3.45 - 25
                      4.45 - 20

                      Jagdpanzer 38
                      3.45 - 350
                      4.45 - 350
                      5.45 - 350
                      6.45 - 350
                      7.45 - 300
                      8.45 - 50

                      Jagdpanther
                      3.45 - 60
                      4.45 - 80
                      5.45 - 80
                      6.45 - 80
                      7.45 - 80
                      8.45 - 80
                      9.45 - 30

                      Jagdtiger
                      3.45 - 20
                      4.45 - 25
                      5.45 - 25
                      6.45 - 7

                      le.Pz.H. 18/40 IV(Sf.)
                      3.45 - 20
                      4.45 - 30
                      5.45 - 30
                      6.45 - 30
                      7.45 - 40
                      8.45 - 40

                      s.Pz.H. 18/1
                      3.45 - 20
                      4.45 - 10
                      5.45 - 10
                      6.45 - 10

                      From NARA T78 R413

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                      • #12
                        I can see that the Pz IV production shifted heavily to the Jadpanzer IV.

                        The memoir "Panzer Gunner" (7th PzD, PzIV, Jadpanzer IV) has a few chapters on the Jadpanzer IV (1945 fighting, East Prussia). The author isn't particularly impressed with the Jadpanzer IV due to its lack of turret and the weak gun mounting (a significant casual factor of non-combat losses). It was probably more of demotion for him. Given the tanks that his vehicle platoon knocked out (and the relegation of the SPG vehicle in the 7th PzD to mainly a defensive/ambush role), (mostly T-34, 1 SU-85, 2 x IS-2) it's questionable that the sacrifices to mount the L/70 were justified. The L/48 could also knock out the IS-2.

                        "Every Jagdpanzer IV would fight its best from an ambush, which meant that its crew had to have a suitable place at which to hide it. However, because we didn't want the ultralong barrels of our Jagdpanzer IVs close to the destructive walls of any of the buildings at that godforsaken extremity of the city"

                        The Jadpanzer IV was only 1.85 meters tall. All combat accounts in the book are of ambush sniping 1-2 platoon sized groups of Soviet tanks with a platoon of Jadpanzer IV (3-4 vehicles)
                        Last edited by Cult Icon; 16 Aug 19, 06:59.
                        Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                        Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                        Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                        Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Artyom_A View Post
                          I don't think that planning into 1946 could be of any practical value.
                          AFV production expected by Herreswaffenamt on 1 March 1945:
                          Thank you. Did you found it on forum ?
                          There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
                            I can see that the Pz IV production shifted heavily to the Jadpanzer IV.

                            The L/48 could also knock out the IS-2.
                            From the front it was very weak.

                            25325_original.jpg

                            There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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                            • #15
                              I have read of several reports/accounts where the L/48 punched through IS-2 in normal combat ranges (flank hits). The frontal armor was of course proof.
                              Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                              Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                              Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                              Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                              Comment

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