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  • Cologne Panther Sequence

    I think this photo sequence is so good that it deserves a separate post:

    http://www.3ad.com/history/wwll/feat...ates.index.htm

  • #2
    Dogdodger has posted this before, but in response to another thread so yeah it deserves a thread by itself I guess!

    Have heard conflicting reports as to the fate of the crew.
    "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
    Ernest Hemingway.

    "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
    Mark Twain.

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    • #3
      Great work Tom. Ive seem the film lots of times. Its nice to see it broken up and analized like that.
      http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...200pixwide.jpg

      Kampfgruppe - A Wargaming Clan Since 1998

      NorbertSnyderJr.com

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      • #4
        Fate of Crew

        Originally posted by Achtung baby View Post
        Dogdodger has posted this before, but in response to another thread so yeah it deserves a thread by itself I guess!

        Have heard conflicting reports as to the fate of the crew.
        YES! Go to my original post "Cologne Pics."

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Tom D View Post
          YES! Go to my original post "Cologne Pics."
          I've posted this before but this thread is directly related so here is the footage!

          "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
          Ernest Hemingway.

          "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
          Mark Twain.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Achtung baby View Post
            I've posted this before but this thread is directly related so here is the footage!

            I too, posted this in "Cologne Pics" today & more!

            Comment


            • #7
              Panther's demise

              Originally posted by Tom D View Post
              I too, posted this in "Cologne Pics" today & more!
              Excellent. I have seen the footage many times, but breaking it down like this reveals details missed on the moving sequence, particularly the fate of the other crew members.

              Comment


              • #8
                I always wondered why the bow machine gunner let the crew get away. The tanks gone for sure, but even if one or two guys live, thats still one or two men that dont have to be trained and that are veterans.
                http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...200pixwide.jpg

                Kampfgruppe - A Wargaming Clan Since 1998

                NorbertSnyderJr.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  I know that duel extremely well because Belton Y Cooper described it in detail in his book Death Traps. Actually the Panther had surprised the Pershing crew and could have fired at the Pershing first but the American tank was on the move so the Germans held their fire expecting the Pershing to stop in order to take aim-as was the fashion in WWII. Perhaps the German gunner was a sniper and he wanted to deliver a single lethal blow into a vulnerable area without wasting too many precious wolfram rounds. However, the American gunner Lawrence Smoyer had engaged gyrostabilizer allowing him to get off the first decisive shot without stopping. The German gunner who had held his fire despite an opportunity was killed instantly. I think at least two Germans burned in their tank and the bodies remained inside for many days afterwards as US troops clamored all over the wreck taking pictures.

                  And thus the American gyrostabilizer, a revolutionary scientific achievement of WWII, proved decisive in this duel.
                  Last edited by MonsterZero; 12 Nov 07, 03:00.

                  "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
                  --Frederick II, King of Prussia

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MonsterZero View Post
                    I know that duel extremely well because Belton Y Cooper described it in detail in his book Death Traps. Actually the Panther had surprised the Pershing crew and could have fired at the Pershing first but the American tank was on the move so the Germans held their fire expecting the Pershing to stop in order to take aim-as was the fashion in WWII. Perhaps the German gunner was a sniper and he wanted to deliver a single lethal blow into a vulnerable area without wasting too many precious wolfram rounds. However, the American gunner Lawrence Smoyer had engaged gyrostabilizer allowing him to get off the first decisive shot without stopping. The German gunner who had held his fire despite an opportunity was killed instantly. I think at least two Germans burned in their tank and the bodies remained inside for many days afterwards as US troops clamored all over the wreck taking pictures.

                    And thus the American gyrostabilizer, a revolutionary scientific achievement of WWII, proved decisive in this duel.
                    That echoes precisely what I've read over the years from other sources.

                    Originally posted by McCoy View Post
                    Yeah, I agree that two of 'em did survive. I've read that they had the T26E in their sights and the finger on the trigger n' waiting for the T26E to stop before shooting at it. The fact that the T26E did shoot on the move took the Panther crew by surprise.

                    That's what I've read.
                    The safest place in Korea was behind a platoon of Marines. Lord how they could fight! - MGEN Frank Lowe, U.S. Army.
                    ----
                    We got a kinder, gentler, Machine gun hand - N.Y.

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                    • #11
                      Thanks to all who posted. I've seen the film but never heard the story.
                      Those that forget history are condemed to repeat it.
                      If you're going to be one you might as well be a BIG RED ONE

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MonsterZero View Post
                        And thus the American gyrostabilizer, a revolutionary scientific achievement of WWII, proved decisive in this duel.
                        The Pershing didn't have a stabilizer.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes it had! Even late versions of the Sherman had it but it wasn't that effective and rather crude by today's standard so the crews fairly used 'em.
                          The safest place in Korea was behind a platoon of Marines. Lord how they could fight! - MGEN Frank Lowe, U.S. Army.
                          ----
                          We got a kinder, gentler, Machine gun hand - N.Y.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            All Shermans except the 105 mm howitzer tanks had the stabilizer. The light tanks M3, M5, and M24 were stabilized as well. The medium tank T23 was equipped with the stabilizer, but when the tank was upgunned to the 90 mm in the T25 and T26, the stabilizer was dropped.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DogDodger View Post
                              All Shermans except the 105 mm howitzer tanks had the stabilizer. The light tanks M3, M5, and M24 were stabilized as well. The medium tank T23 was equipped with the stabilizer, but when the tank was upgunned to the 90 mm in the T25 and T26, the stabilizer was dropped.
                              Then the author made it up or replicated a rumor which is possible.

                              "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
                              --Frederick II, King of Prussia

                              Comment

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