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What would be your German AFV in 1940?

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  • What would be your German AFV in 1940?

    I've done a similar thread in the WW2 forum, but would like to switch sides for this debate!
    As the title suggests, which German AFV would you choose to take into battle against the allies in 1940?

    look forward to reading your response.
    "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
    Ernest Hemingway.

    "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
    Mark Twain.

  • #2
    Possiblly the PzKpfw NbFz VI, if it were outfitted with real armor. Some sources claim it was made from mild steel, not hardened. Second choice would be the latest mark of the PzIV available. The earlier examples are susposed to have had thinner armor. In any case the 75mm L24 gun I'd think more usefull than the 37mm of the MkIII or the Cezch tank.

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    • #3
      The model of the PzKpfw III in 1940 (April) would be the Ausf. G with the KwK 38 L/42, and using the PzGr 40 could penetrate: 94mm/100 m; 55mm/500m; 21mm/1000m. The model PzKpfw IV in 1940, would be the Ausf. D (Oct 1939...E in Sept '40), and using the Gr 38 HI/A (Heat round available in June 1940) could penetrate 70mm out to 1000m range (no penetration values shown for greater ranges). All penetrations are against armor plate sloped at 30 degrees from vertical. So, based on these penetration values, and better results with HE, I would choose the PzKpfw IV.

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      • #4
        Panzerkampfwagen III Ausf G with the 5 cm L42 Gun. It was state of the German Panzer Art of the time. At the time, a better all purpose panzer than the Panzer IV Ausf E, which was a support tank. Those heat rounds were not as available or as reliable as you may think.

        “Our own Panzerkopfgranate (i.e. APCBC or APCR) are exceptionally effective and amazingly accurate. However, to the contrary, due to its large dispersion the HL/B-Granaten (shaped charge shells - i.e. HEAT) is usable at a maximum range of 500 metres. If a hit is obtained at long range by expenditure of a high number of rounds, the effect of the HL/B Granate is good. However the troops have no faith in the HL/B-Granate. It is desired that the supply of Panzer-Kopfgranaten be increased.”

        http://gva.freeweb.hu/weapons/german...AT_Projectiles

        So until that Panzer IV is sporting a 7.5cm L43 at least, no thanks.
        Eternal War(gaming) Armoured Struggle Car Bob

        History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis.
        Lazarus Long

        Draw the blinds on yesterday and it's all so much scarier....
        David Bowie

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        • #5
          Doubtless I’d have choosen the Panzer VI Ausf. E Tiger I. An extremely mighty tank that it would have constituted the turning point in the land conflict if they have been more. Certainly it wasn’t free from flaw: for example its tracks were too “delicate” and if they broke in battle, only another Tiger could to tow the damaged one because of their excessive weight. But on the other hand it was equipped with the famous 88 mm piece!
          Historia Magistra Vitae.
          M. T. Cicero

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          • #6
            *Ahem* How many Tigers were available in 1940?
            Panzerworld
            Preserved Military Vehicle Registry Project More than 1000 Second World War-era museum vehicles on record

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            • #7
              Originally posted by C. Ankerstjerne View Post
              *Ahem* How many Tigers were available in 1940?
              Ops, sorry! I'm little tired. The best mistake as well!
              Historia Magistra Vitae.
              M. T. Cicero

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              • #8
                StuG IIIB,...with plenty of infantry, artillery ans AT assets close to hand.
                The Purist

                Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

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                • #9
                  OK...the post guidelines do not disallow a modification...So;

                  From the vantage point of my barstool here...I am going to try to take a captured Maltida turret (with 78mmm armor)(salvaged from a destroyed maltida, France 40) and fit it into a PZIII Ausf E chassis; Since turret ring diameters are not easy to get, the PzIII width is 9.6" and the maltida chassis is narrower at 8.25. So the Maltida turret should be narrower than the PzIII turret ring making its fit in at least possible. Once in ,turret traverse may have to be a real problem; instead a limited manual crew traverse of the Maltilda turret to say 15-25 degrees each side; making this combination tank a self propelled gun instead of a tank;
                  Next the tank gun needs to be upgunned so the Maltilda 40mm gun is removed, but due to a small turret gun ring upsizing is most difficult; however, a 50mmKwk L42 is only 10mm wider; I'd go for a filing/blow torch of the Maltida ring for 1/4 to 1/3 of an inch and put in the German 50mmL42;

                  Last edited by webmill2203524; 05 Sep 07, 15:04.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by webmill2203524 View Post
                    OK...the post guidelines do not disallow a modification...So;

                    From the vantage point of my barstool here...I am going to try to take a captured Maltida turret (with 78mmm armor)(salvaged from a destroyed maltida, France 40) and fit it into a PZIII Ausf E chassis; Since turret ring diameters are not easy to get, the PzIII width is 9.6" and the maltida chassis is narrower at 8.25. So the Maltida turret should be narrower than the PzIII turret ring making its fit in at least possible. Once in ,turret traverse may have to be a real problem; instead a limited manual crew traverse of the Maltilda turret to say 15-25 degrees each side; making this combination tank a self propelled gun instead of a tank;
                    Next the tank gun needs to be upgunned so the Maltilda 40mm gun is removed, but due to a small turret gun ring upsizing is most difficult; however, a 50mmKwk L42 is only 10mm wider; I'd go for a filing/blow torch of the Maltida ring for 1/4 to 1/3 of an inch and put in the German 50mmL42;

                    Webmill, try as you like in looking for loop holes but please just keep things simple!!!
                    "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                    Ernest Hemingway.

                    "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
                    Mark Twain.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The Purist View Post
                      StuG IIIB,...with plenty of infantry, artillery ans AT assets close to hand.
                      Here here! Im right there with you in the Stug Company! Even though technicly he asked us what "Tank" we would be in.

                      If he insists on putting us in a turreted beast ill take a PzIII with the L/42 gun thank you very much.
                      http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...200pixwide.jpg

                      Kampfgruppe - A Wargaming Clan Since 1998

                      NorbertSnyderJr.com

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by KGPanzerschrecK View Post
                        Here here! Im right there with you in the Stug Company! Even though technicly he asked us what "Tank" we would be in.

                        If he insists on putting us in a turreted beast ill take a PzIII with the L/42 gun thank you very much.
                        AFV mate!

                        Is a Stug not technically a AFV?
                        "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                        Ernest Hemingway.

                        "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
                        Mark Twain.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by achtung baby View Post
                          AFV mate!

                          Is a Stug not technically a AFV?
                          Well as Homer Simpson would say, "D'oh!"

                          I guess i should pay more attention.

                          I take the Stug out one day and the PzIII out the next and keep rotating like that. Hows that?
                          http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...200pixwide.jpg

                          Kampfgruppe - A Wargaming Clan Since 1998

                          NorbertSnyderJr.com

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KGPanzerschrecK View Post
                            Well as Homer Simpson would say, "D'oh!"

                            I guess i should pay more attention.

                            I take the Stug out one day and the PzIII out the next and keep rotating like that. Hows that?
                            Yeah right, your a Stug man all the way... we'd be dragging you kicking and screaming out of that hatch!!!
                            "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                            Ernest Hemingway.

                            "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
                            Mark Twain.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by achtung baby View Post
                              Yeah right, your a Stug man all the way... we'd be dragging you kicking and screaming out of that hatch!!!
                              More like kicking and screaming to get me into the hatch! Im rather rotund. Better butter me up good! LOL.
                              http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...200pixwide.jpg

                              Kampfgruppe - A Wargaming Clan Since 1998

                              NorbertSnyderJr.com

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