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Your Favourite WW2 fully-tracked tank destroyers?

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  • Your Favourite WW2 fully-tracked tank destroyers?

    This poll invites members to vote for, and discuss their favourite fully-tracked WW2 tank destroyers. As with the 'Favourite WW2 Tanks' poll, this is intended to be enjoyed but we inevitably have the opportunity to learn along the way.

    Particular tank destroyers may be favourties of yours for a whole variety of reasons, including ...
    • Technical attributes
    • Combat prowess
    • You built a model of it
    • You like the look of it
    • You recently read about it
    • It has some special significance for you
    ... or a combination of any of those; or any other reasons that come to mind for you. It doesn't matter, because here we are not trying to analyze. We are just talking about our favourites for the pleasure of it. I would invite you to tell us all why you like your particular favourites and you can be as whimsical and frivolous as you like with your reasons.
    First and foremost, this is for fun.

    The poll options allow a maximum of 25 candidates so the last option is 'Other', if you want to vote for anything I've missed. If you use this option, please tell us about the vehicle in-thread.

    You will notice I have included some types that were by original design intent, more assault gun than tank destroyer but they have been included because they often enough came to be employed as TDs. There wasn't room for all such vehicles, though; so my apologies in advance for any 'assault-gun-cum-tank-destroyer' (or, for that matter, any tank destroyer proper) I have overlooked, that you feel should have been included. If there is sufficient support for the idea, I may run a separate poll for assault guns/SP artillery later. Another for half-tracked and wheeled TDs might also be suggested.

    Anyway, whatever your reasons for liking some of these tank destroyers here's your chance to vote for your favourites and - if you want - tell us why you like them. So this is a multiple choice poll; allowing you to vote for more than one. Vote for as few or as many as you like.

    Achilles (17pdr/76.2mm L/55)
    Archer (17pdr/76.2mm L/55)
    Panzerjager I (4.7cm(t) L/43)
    Marder II (7.62cm(r) & 7.5cm)
    Marder III (7.62cm(r) & 7.5cm, variants combined)
    Hetzer (7.5cm L/48)
    StuG (7.5cm L/43 & L/48, III & IV combined)
    Jagdpanzer IV (7.5cm L/48)
    Panzer IV/70 (7.5cm L/70, (V) & (A) combined)
    Ferdinand/Elefant (8.8cm L/71)
    Nashorn (8.8cm L/71)
    Jagdpanther (8.8cm L/71)
    Jagdtiger (12.8cm L/55)
    Semovente da 75/18 (75mm L/18)
    Semovente da 75/34 (75mm L/34)
    Semovente da 105/25 (105mm L/25)
    Type 1 Ho-Ni (75mm L/38.4)
    SU-85 (85mm L/55)
    SU-100 (100mm L/53.5)
    SU/ISU-152 (152.4mm L/27.9)
    ISU-122 (122mm L/45)
    M10 ‘Wolverine’ (M7 3”/76.2mm L/50)
    M36 ‘Jackson’ (M3 90mm L/53)
    M18 ‘Hellcat’ (M1A1 76.2mm L/52)
    Other (please name)
    Last edited by panther3485; 31 Dec 12, 22:52.
    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

  • #2
    I went with something of a top five list of my personal favorites. They would certainly not all rank as contenders on their technical merits, though a couple of them might, but they're my faves and that's what this is about:

    1. My all time favorite, the Elefant. I built an old Testors model of one when I was little and have liked it ever since. Huge, thick, great gun, slow, ponderous, it defines many German AFV strengths and weaknesses. She'd never make a top five list on technical grounds, but the vehicle looks, well, bada$$ to me. KB

    2. SU/ISU152. Another large thing with a very useful main weapon. Almost Elefantish in it's characteristics, but a more useful vehicle overall, in my opinion. Served the Soviet cause well for a long time. KFB

    3. M36. Finally something with a 90mm from the US. Reliable vehicle with a useful rotating turret and good looking to boot. Roofs? For pansies. KB

    4. SU100. Maybe the best of the breed in WWII based on overall balance and ability. Reliable chassis, good range, great gun, armor that did what it was supposed to. Served for a long time after the war, and the 100mm gun still serves today. KB...almost KFB.

    5. Achilles. Fabulous 17pdr ap performance on a reliable hull. Rotating turret is a plus. Functional and practical for a TD. B


    • #3
      As with the 'Favourite WW2 Tanks' poll...

      ... I'm gonna go with a favourite 10 here, too.
      I mean, what can I say? I'm just that super generous kinda guy who likes to spread the credit around.

      So here they are, along with my vacuous reasons again:

      Achilles - A good way to get even better performance out of the excellent M10 TD; British style. Good looks, and the open-topped turret makes for better modelling material than a conventional tank.

      Marder III - Making the most of the excellent 38(t) chassis, starting from relatively early in the War. Yeah, sure, Hetzer is the glamour puss and normally gets a lot of votes; but it arrived kinda late. Also, all three main variants of Marder III are open-topped, making the efforts of modelling very rewarding. I have all three as kits and each has its particular charm for me. Good looking to my eyes (for a vehicle that most might not see as good looking) and they all had a potent punch on the battlefield.

      StuG - Arguably the most important of all German TD's by my reckoning; based on sheer numbers produced and length of service, combined with a nice low silhouette and a very capable armament on an excellent robust chassis. Not bad for a vehicle that started off as an infantry support assault gun, to become such an important tank destroyer. Also for the modeller, enough variations to make for at least 2-3 interesting subjects.

      Ferdinand/Elefant - What can be so appealing about a mis-shaped brick on tracks? This thing may have been rather sluggish but it just oozes bags and bags of character. And ... I dunno, just something about the story of its combat debut at Kursk - where it had patchy success and some real dramas in action - captured my imagination. Spearheading an offensive and no decent secondary armament? What were these guys thinking? It's also a good modelling subject, IMO.

      Jagdpanther - Popular among enthusiasts for a number of reasons, not least its looks; plus the combination of sleek lines and sheer power. Great potency on the battlefield, when used right. To some, this machine epitomizes the WW2 German TD. To me, its a combination of the Jagdpanther's looks and power, together with its modelling appeal.

      SU-85 - Sheer looks for me; trim and low-slung with a potent armament. It makes a great subject for modelling, especially in diorama with figures. Not as powerful as SU-100 but somehow a bit more 'balanced' looking. Also it served earlier and IIRC in greater numbers. Always been a fave of mine.

      SU-100 - Much as the '85 but more so for its aura of supreme potency in a low-slung package, even though it looks a tad 'front heavy' by comparison. And having a high-velocity 100mm armament in 1944-45, which in differing versions served for so long, in such numbers, in so many places as an AFV weapon throughout the 2nd half of the 20th Century ... and still serves today. 'Nuff said.

      SU/ISU-152 - What a beast! And what a performer! Outstanding as a support weapon and still extremely useful & effective against enemy armour. Bring down an apartment block or wreck the heaviest enemy tanks. And it looks the part, too. I already have my 1/35 ISU-152 and will soon be acquiring its SU progenitor; both to take prominent positions in my display case some day.

      M36 'Jackson' - Best of the major production US TDs, that 90mm was a very good tank killer; and not a moment too soon. As with the Achilles, the open turret makes for great modelling and the vehicle overall is very appealing to look at, as well as being an excellent example of the breed.

      M18 'Hellcat' - While the 76mm did not have the same punch as the 90mm, with the right ammo it was still pretty darn good and the outstanding mobility & speed of the vehicle meant it could appear in the right place and right time better than anything else the Allies had on tracks. And it could got out of trouble very quickly when it needed to. It was also, IMO, a good looking AFV and combining that with the open top makes it another winner for the modeller.

      There, that's my fave 10 out of this lot.
      Last edited by panther3485; 01 Jan 13, 05:43.
      "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
      Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.


      • #4
        Since it is about favourites, I went the following






        For best, I would choose Achilles
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        • #5
          I voted for Jagdpanther. Jagdpanzer IV,Hetzer,Achilles,SU 100 and StuG are good too.

          Best looking?

          "Give me 100 000 croatian soldiers and I will conqure all world" - Napoleon Bonaparte

          Soldiers are coming and leaving while war will never end.


          • #6
            JagdPanther, Nashorn, M-10, M-36, and M-18 got my votes.
            "You listen to the ol' Pork Chop Express on a dark and stormy night......"


            • #7
              -Stug III/Elefant - More due to familiarity than anything else. There is a plethora of information about it and its use. It also looked 'cool'.

              -Jagdpanther- Probably the best of the late-war turretless TDs.

              -M-36- The best TD of WW2

              -M-18- The best TD in its class (class being, 76mm gun or high velocity 75mm)


              • #8
                I have always been a "fastest with the mostest" guy so I went with the stug III. The machine was upgradeable and very reliable. The machine was not difficult to repair a track or a road wheel, as there are countless comments in books I have read on being back in service fairly quickly after hitting a mine. The machine was fairly quick it had a low profile and could knock out just about anything on the field. They were easily transported and could even cross wooden bridges. I know there are various machine guns and placements on the many different models but I don't know which is which. My top ten are somewhat varring as many I just like the way they look
                1.) Stug III ________6.) panzer jeager
                2.) M-18__________ 7.) Hetzer
                3.) Ferdinand________8.) The French arl thing I just found
                4.) SU-152__________9.) Nashorne
                5.) jagt panther______10.) SU 85 (just an ugly bastid)
                Awesome thread BTW


                • #9
                  In case anyone is wondering .....

                  In case anyone is wondering what the heck Dave (Brumbear) was talking about with his #8 favourite ("The French ARL thing I just found"), this is the beast here:
                  Originally posted by Brumbear View Post
                  And the thread where he made the enquiry, here:

                  So Dave, I guess you have given us the first 'Other' (even though you forgot to place the vote for it). And what a very interesting surprise other it has turned out to be!

                  That's gotta be worth +1 for sheer novelty!
                  Last edited by panther3485; 01 Jan 13, 11:07.
                  "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                  Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.


                  • #10
                    (1) The M36 jackson has a turret 90mm gun based on the sherman very reliable. Speed and mobility were good enough.

                    (2) Stug III - The best german tank destroyer based on the panzer III easy and cheap to produce good armor firepower and mobility.

                    (3) Jagd Panther - Good mobility and reliaility for it's size. Good firepower no turret

                    (4) M18 hellcat - Very good mobility speed and reliabilty.The 76mm had good armor penetration but the armor was very thin and it had a topless turret.

                    Achillies - The 17 pdr had very good penetration but slow rate of fire and very slow hand cranked turret because of this the brits mostly used them in defensive rolls. Not a good offensive weapon.

                    Hetzer - Sloped armor but thin based on the 38nat chassis weak and unreliable suspension cramped interior.

                    Jagd tiger and Elefant - Overweight unreliable sitting ducks.


                    • #11
                      Yes sir #8 the French arl thingy it is a wonderous beast!!!


                      • #12
                        Pzkw IV/70 Lange and Jagdpanther. Lethality, looks and crew protection.

                        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?


                        • #13
                          My votes. Considered intelligent or not; my votes. Just listed in the order of the poll.




                          Type 1 Ho-Ni



                          SU/ISU-152 the Beast Killer.

                          M36 (But really the Achilles and M10 and the M36 are all the same vehicle, but rather than cluttering the vote went for the one that is STILL in service.)

                          M18 Hellcat (Perhaps my most favorite. Good gun and could move like greased lightning.)

                          Eagles may fly; but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines!

                          "I'm not expendable; I'm not stupid and I'm not going." - Kerr Avon, Blake's 7

                          What didn't kill us; didn't make us smarter.


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tin78 View Post
                            The 17 pdr had very good penetration but slow rate of fire
                            So what does the 'Q.F' mean in 17pdr Q.F?

                            The designation for the Achillies was as a Self propelled (anti-tank) gun and was used as such by the Royal Artillery.

                            Last edited by Dibble201Bty; 01 Jan 13, 17:22.
                            ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
                            All human ills he can subdue,
                            Or with a bauble or medal
                            Can win mans heart for you;
                            And many a blessing know to stew
                            To make a megloamaniac bright;
                            Give honour to the dainty Corse,
                            The Pixie is a little shite.


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
                              So what does the 'Q.F' mean in 17pdr Q.F?

                              The designation for the Achillies was as a Self propelled (anti-tank) gun and was used as such by the Royal Artillery.

                              Q.F - Quick fire but at around nine rounds a minute I wouldn't call it quick the 75 and 76 shermans had almost twice the rof but the 17 pdr did have much better penetration.

                              You are correct the achilles was classified anti-tank gun not a tank destroyer as the m10 wolverine or m18 hellcat were classified as. The m18 and m10s were behind front lines and called up to the front when enemy armor was encountered also known as tank hunters. The achilles were mainly the oposite used in defensive postions against german counter attacks.


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