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Italian Paras during Market Garden?

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  • Italian Paras during Market Garden?

    "Those paras were probably from Nembo Division. A full regiment of Nembo went over to the Germans. Most of them ended up as the cadre for the 14th Falschirm., however, at least one parachute recce company (if memory serves, also from Nembo) ended up with the 2nd Falschirm. at Market Garden. They were equipped with Italian recon vehicles but wore German uniforms."

    Someone in another forum brought this up. Is this true and is there some more information on this? Robert

    http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=150782
    For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman

  • #2
    It's absolute cobblers.
    The long toll of the brave
    Is not lost in darkness
    Over the fruitful earth
    And athwart the seas
    Hath passed the light of noble deeds
    Unquenchable forever.

    Comment


    • #3
      Another similar reference to it. Robert

      "The first new unit to be formed was the Italian Parachutists Volunteers Group, formed by elements of the ADRA, 10th Arditi Rgt, 17th, 18th and 20th "Ciclone" Battalions, 12th and 8th "Nembo" Battalions and a replacement unit of the "Nembo" then training at Viterbo. Renamed Parachutist Group "Nembo", the unit was assigned to the 2nd Fallschirjaeger Div. One company of the 10th Arditi Rgt entered too in the 2nd FJ as its reconnaissance units, and followed this German Division in Russia and then in Holland, where it fought in the Market Garden operation"

      http://warandgame.blogspot.com/2008/...oop-units.html

      And,

      " But i clearly remenber quotes from Nino Arena book..this guy, that i interviewd years ago here in Rome…while having been himself a parachutist and fought with RSI forces is the semiofficial and must appreciated Italian historian on both Folgore and RSI armed forces. In one of his books he mentioned Arnhem and also published a pict of a Sahariana car with 20mm HMG and para crew. Same info are mentioned in the multivolume "Gli ultimi in grigio verde"by Pisanò..another semiofficial history of RSI forces."

      And this too from Basco Grigioverde: I ragazzi che riscattarono l'Onore,

      "assigned to 2° Btn Combat Engineers (Major Gestner) they fought in Ukraine near Nowgerodka, Jitomir, Baranivka where cpt Paolo Paris (Gold medal for military valor) died whit several other Arditi. The few survivors will fight against british paratroopers in Arnhem on september 1944..."

      http://bascogrigioverde.blogspot.com...no-lonore.html
      Last edited by JCFalkenbergIII; 12 Apr 10, 01:45.
      For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman

      Comment


      • #4
        They were never at Arnhem. Although the records on the German side are incomplete there is no indication of 2nd FJ being deployed there. Some Italians could, I suppose, have been 'snatched' by the Germans (as they did with quite a few soldiers) and parceled out to various ad hoc formations as needed. No OOB lists 2nd FJ as being involved in any part of the campaign I'm afraid.
        Signing out.

        Comment


        • #5
          Another source mentioned. Robert

          "Nino Arena - Per l'onore d'Italia, Storia del Rgt. Arditi paracadutisti Folgore della R.S.I. (whit also photos!)
          Nino Arena - i Paracadutisti
          Italian Army historic office - Studi Storico Militari 1986

          Well, the X° rgt Arditi paracadutisti joined 2nd Falshirmjager division after 8th september and operate as recon unit fighting in Ukraine and Netherlands, using SPA jeep."
          For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JCFalkenbergIII View Post
            Another source mentioned. Robert

            "Nino Arena - Per l'onore d'Italia, Storia del Rgt. Arditi paracadutisti Folgore della R.S.I. (whit also photos!)
            Nino Arena - i Paracadutisti
            Italian Army historic office - Studi Storico Militari 1986

            Well, the X° rgt Arditi paracadutisti joined 2nd Falshirmjager division after 8th september and operate as recon unit fighting in Ukraine and Netherlands, using SPA jeep."
            That would almost settle it I think. 'Market-Garden' started on 17th September and there is no way that 2nd FJ would have been transferred West and deployed to The Netherlands in time to join the fighting. They may, as part of 1st Parachute Army, have fought in the Arnhem vicinity before the war finished but not against the British and/or Americans during Market-Garden
            Signing out.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Full Monty View Post
              That would almost settle it I think. 'Market-Garden' started on 17th September and there is no way that 2nd FJ would have been transferred West and deployed to The Netherlands in time to join the fighting. They may, as part of 1st Parachute Army, have fought in the Arnhem vicinity before the war finished but not against the British and/or Americans during Market-Garden
              IIRC the new 2nd FJ division began reforming in Amersfoort in the Netherlands by September of 1944. Perhaps that was the 2nd FJ that is mentioned? Robert
              For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by JCFalkenbergIII View Post
                IIRC the new 2nd FJ division began reforming in Amersfoort in the Netherlands by September of 1944. Perhaps that was the 2nd FJ that is mentioned? Robert
                Could be. 1st Parachute Army was forming at that time in The Netherlands. But the divisions that were coming under its command largely existed on paper only, much like the Army.
                Signing out.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Full Monty View Post
                  Could be. 1st Parachute Army was forming at that time in The Netherlands. But the divisions that were coming under its command largely existed on paper only, much like the Army.
                  True . I wish I could get a hold of some of the books that were used as sources for the statements. Since the 2nd FJ was being reformed there I would think the Italians would have been welcomed. Robert
                  For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JCFalkenbergIII View Post
                    True . I wish I could get a hold of some of the books that were used as sources for the statements. Since the 2nd FJ was being reformed there I would think the Italians would have been welcomed. Robert
                    Quite possibly. It has to be said that 2nd FJ Division had a pretty chequered career. This little site covers it briefly but it makes us none the wiser as to where the Italians might have served.

                    http://www.ww2.dk/ground/fallschirm/2fjd.htm
                    Signing out.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Full Monty View Post
                      Quite possibly. It has to be said that 2nd FJ Division had a pretty chequered career. This little site covers it briefly but it makes us none the wiser as to where the Italians might have served.

                      http://www.ww2.dk/ground/fallschirm/2fjd.htm
                      "The order for reactivation was issued on 24.9.44 (to be completed 1.11.44), and all remnants of the old division were united in Amersfoort, Holland."

                      Perhaps some of the remnants could have been Italian. Robert
                      For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JCFalkenbergIII View Post
                        "The order for reactivation was issued on 24.9.44 (to be completed 1.11.44), and all remnants of the old division were united in Amersfoort, Holland."

                        Perhaps some of the remnants could have been Italian. Robert
                        They could indeed, although the reactivation comes too late for Market Garden.

                        Rather confusingly, Von der Heydte's 6th FJ Regiment, a key element of KG Walther fighting in the corridor between Eindhoven and Nijmegen, was part of 2nd FJ Division until the division was effectively destroyed at Falaise.
                        Signing out.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Looks like it will be just another mysteries of the war. Robert
                          For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman

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