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Female Japanese snipers?

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  • Female Japanese snipers?

    In the "The American Soldier in WWII" by Chester G. Hearn, I read:

    " A rifleman shot one who had been sniping into a perimeter. Standard operating procedure called for a body search to identify the enemy's unit. When going through a fallen enemy's shirt,the soldier's hand ran across a pair of breasts. There is no record of the number of women serving as Japanese snipers,but there was at least one on Guadacanal."

    Has anyone else heard of this? I wonder ,if it is true,how the Japanese males would have thought of it? With Japanese society being so male dominated and orientated.
    Last edited by JCFalkenbergIII; 12 Apr 10, 01:13.
    For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman

  • #2
    It does not sound credible.
    Saipan and Okinowa perhaps, but not Guadalcanal.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by JCFalkenbergIII View Post
      In the "The American Soldier in WWII" by Chester G. Hearn, I read:

      " A rifleman shot one who had been sniping into a perimeter. Standard operating procedure called for a body search to identify the enemy's unit. When going through a fallen enemy's shirt,the soldier's hand ran across a pair of breasts. There is no record of the number of women serving as Japanese snipers,but there was at least one on Guadacanal."

      Has anyone else heard of this? I wonder ,if it is true,how the Japanese males would have thought of it? With Japanese society being so male dominated and orientated.
      I have never heard or read about Japanese female soldiers outside of legends, or even Japanese female civilians offering armed resistance to invading troops.

      According to a Japanese woman I know, women hurting, much less killing, men is a strong cultural taboo.

      Still, it is not completely impossible that it happened on one or a few occasions. War breaks down many cultural taboos.

      Sensemaker
      It doesn't matter how much intelligence you have. What matters is how much intelligence you use.

      If it is stupid, but works, it aint stupid.

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      • #4
        The wifes of samurai did learn to use various weapons to defend the home when their husband was away. (Prefered method of suicide was to cut open the throat, not the stomach opening thats for males. but not cutting open with a left to right cut but with two horizontal stabs, one left one right afaik.)

        They were expected to offer armed resistance to intruders which were males. Iirc they had other than those daggers they always carried some kind of spear they trained with.... not nagita though.

        Anyway, its not unkown for japanese women to fight. Just not as offensively as a sniper would have to. But perhaps some thought that the home they had to protect was the whole of japan?
        Ha, wie so stolz und hehr
        Wirft über Land und Meer
        Weithin der deutsche Aar
        Flammenden Blick.

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        • #5
          I will believe it if you can give me a real source

          Originally posted by Kimi View Post
          The wifes of samurai did learn to use various weapons to defend the home when their husband was away.
          I have heard this claim, but the claim was never given proper source. Not even those that made this claim could give an example of when this actually happened.

          Originally posted by Kimi View Post
          (Prefered method of suicide was to cut open the throat, not the stomach opening thats for males. but not cutting open with a left to right cut but with two horizontal stabs, one left one right afaik.)
          Yes, it is called "jigai" but the word can also refer to suicide in general. Another "popular" method was mutual suicide, two people hold hands and have a knife in their other hand, stabbing eachother in the heart synchronized.

          Originally posted by Kimi View Post
          They were expected to offer armed resistance to intruders which were males. Iirc they had other than those daggers they always carried some kind of spear they trained with.... not nagita though.
          Naginata. Some home pages say this is a weapon for females. I have yet to read a creadible source saying it was actually used by a woman in combat. Not even the craziest home page I have read on Japanese warfare and weapons (and there are plenty of crazy home pages on those subjects) have claimed that samurai women carried those spears with them at all time.

          Originally posted by Kimi View Post
          Anyway, its not unkown for japanese women to fight. Just not as offensively as a sniper would have to. But perhaps some thought that the home they had to protect was the whole of japan?
          It is unknown to me to see a real, academic source mention a Japanese woman fighting in the military sense. I am not saying it never happened. I suppose it has happened -some form of desperate self-defense comes naturally to humans, male and female, despite cultural taboos, when there is no other way out. I am just saying I have never seen a credible source claim that they have directly witnessed it or seen any other proof of it happening.

          Sensemaker
          Last edited by Sensemaker; 12 Apr 10, 05:13.
          It doesn't matter how much intelligence you have. What matters is how much intelligence you use.

          If it is stupid, but works, it aint stupid.

          Comment


          • #6
            If it happened, I think it's far more likely it was one of those cases of women presenting themselves as men to be allowed in the military. Doubt they would allow her to enlist and fight.

            It happened before, maybe it happened in the Japanese Empire. From the legendary Joan of Arc and Hua Mulan to the more mundane examples of Catalina de Erauso, Deborah Sampson Gannett, Hannah Snell, Nadezhda Durova, Mollie Bean, Dorothy Lawrence...
            If you can deceive well enough into serving the Spanish Armada, the Continental Army, the Royal Marines, Uhlan Cavalry, the Confederate Army and the British Expeditionary Force, odds are pretty good the Imperial Army of Japan got deceived once by a warmongering female

            Maybe the Japanese would have been even more surprised than the rifleman that found her

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
              It does not sound credible.
              Saipan and Okinowa perhaps, but not Guadalcanal.
              That would sound more probable to me. I wish there was more out there as to where the information came from. Robert
              For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman

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              • #8
                I believe that I am correct in saying during WWII the Japanese women were considered basically non-persons. They were used as "comfort" slaves along with women from the occupied countries. They may have been used as nurses, but the Japanese philosophy was if you are injured you are worthless to your fellow soldiers and the Emperor so there probably were not any "combat" nurses. At least that is what I have gathered from the numerous books on the PTO.
                Too Much To Do Too Little Time

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                • #9
                  Well, naginata are a bit different to what I meant. They are pretty long, regal weapons and as such kind of hard to use inside a house, perhaps a castle but not all samurai were rich enough to live in a huge mansion. What I meant was more along the lines of 槍 (yari) or 打根 (uchi-ne) 打矢 (uchi-ya).

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yari

                  http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%89%93%E6%A0%B9




                  uchi-ne would be a mini-spear / throwing spear while a uchi-ya would be something like a throwing dart. A yari can be anything from a bamboo stick with a pointy end to all the nice weapons on wiki.
                  Ha, wie so stolz und hehr
                  Wirft über Land und Meer
                  Weithin der deutsche Aar
                  Flammenden Blick.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    On any island with a civilian Japanese population I'd call it quite credible. Taboos against hurting men probably didn't mean so much against foriegn devils.
                    I wonder though if sneaking her way into the Japanese military proper would have been feasible for a woman. IIRC the nudity taboo was much less pronounced in Japan (and most other places) than the USA, it sounds to me like a really small change of escaping detection.
                    Reaction to the 2016 Munich shootings:
                    Europe: "We are shocked and support you in these harsh times, we stand by you."
                    USA: "We will check people from Germany extra-hard and it is your own damn fault for being so stupid."

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                    • #11
                      He might've been feeling up a set of man-boobs?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Acheron View Post
                        On any island with a civilian Japanese population I'd call it quite credible. Taboos against hurting men probably didn't mean so much against foriegn devils.
                        I wonder though if sneaking her way into the Japanese military proper would have been feasible for a woman. IIRC the nudity taboo was much less pronounced in Japan (and most other places) than the USA, it sounds to me like a really small change of escaping detection.
                        Were there any civilian Japanese females on Guadacanal? If not then perhaps there was one living as a male. Though I don't know how she would be able to do that without notice in the Japanese Army . Robert
                        For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman

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                        • #13
                          I for one doubt it for a reason. The only "plump" Japanese on "Starvation Island" were the ones just off the boat. The odds of any Japanese Female keeping enough body fat to have recognizable breasts are pretty long. The habit of Japanese communal bathing also precludes females from sneaking in as males.

                          Pruitt
                          Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                          Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                          by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                            The habit of Japanese communal bathing also precludes females from sneaking in as males.

                            Pruitt
                            Exactly my thought . Robert
                            For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hello, I apologize if posting in an old thread is inappropriate. But I didn't want to appear as a spammer as I'm a new member and I like to keep things in topic / and not spread things around unless one has to.

                              As to what brings me here. While watching a video interviewing soldiers who had served in Burma, starting at the 4 min 14 sec mark, something caught my eye.. which is why I'm here.

                              I'm to new to post a link. The video appeared in the Guardian (UK) regarding the Burma. A google search of
                              "The forgotten army of WWII: West Africa's soldiers in Burma – exclusive video" should take you there or bring you close enough. Video is 7 mins and 4 seconds.

                              Transcript:
                              4:07
                              "In the thick jungle the white officers used black shoe polish to paint their face and hands to look like us.
                              4:15 (other veteran)
                              "There was a female Japanese soldier, very brave, she was at top of a tree. When she spotted a white man among us, than she shoots! (4:28)

                              Unfortunately not more is said or at least the editors stopped at that, about the incident. And I'm not trying to go "aha!" on this subject, but sharing a.. woah/pause caught a side interesting bump from an interview. It would have been nice if they had side links, sharing full interviews of each veteran they talked to in hopes that the veteran talked more on that particular subject. :/

                              Anyhoo thank you for reading, benevolent wishes to everyone's endeavors.

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