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Resistance 1945

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  • Resistance 1945

    I have read that in Greece,Poland ,Indonesia,Vietnam and Lithuania for example that after being "Liberated" there were a few groups that still fought on. Except this time it was against the Allies that had come and "liberated" them along with their new governments. Were there any others that did the same thing? Were they just "Independence" and "Freedom fighter" groups, Communist or Anti-Communist? Did they just fight against the Soviets or others? If not for independence or freedom what other reasons did they fight for?
    For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman

  • #2
    Well, in Vietnam, the Viet Minh had done a fair job of driving out the Japanese.

    I'd say they were about ready to kick out any other foreign power that tried to rule them and they just didn't want to be ruled from Paris any more. The communist sympathies of many played a part, but after defeating the brutal Japanese they saw no reason they should bow to the French again.
    Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

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    • #3
      Originally posted by the ace View Post
      Well, in Vietnam, the Viet Minh had done a fair job of driving out the Japanese.

      I'd say they were about ready to kick out any other foreign power that tried to rule them and they just didn't want to be ruled from Paris any more. The communist sympathies of many played a part, but after defeating the brutal Japanese they saw no reason they should bow to the French again.
      Nationalism certainly played a part in some of the resistance after the war.
      This I read on another site,

      "According to Norman Davis in his book Rising 44 it was a civil war in Poland betwen 1944 and 1947. Fifteen regiments of NKVD troops were stationed in the country backing the Communist government as well as Red Army forces. He says official figues give communist security forces losses as 18,000. The groups leading the fighting against the communists were WiN a group with strong links to the AK anti German resistance group and the NSZ which if I remember correctly was a right wing resistance group.

      Fighting in the western Ukraine went on into the 50s led by the UPA which operated in western Ukraine and eastern Poland. The Polish Communist government deported aproximatly 250,000 Ukrainians from eastern Poland to the former German territories in western Poland.

      Resistance in the Baltic states continued on a small scale into the 50s with the last ones eliminated at a suprisingly late date but I have forgotten it. "

      Robert
      Last edited by JCFalkenbergIII; 25 Mar 10, 19:51.
      For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman

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      • #4
        That's an interesting one. How right-wing would a Pole have to be to hate Stalin and his puppet government ?

        I can well imagine large numbers of Poles hankering after the Good Old Days of Nazi rule.

        I would be inclined to suggest that Poles, whatever their political allegiance, preferred a free Poland to a Soviet satellite, but they had to be fascists not to love Uncle Joe and his bumboys.

        It's probably safe to draw similar conclusions for the Ukraine and the Baltic States.
        Last edited by the ace; 28 Mar 10, 14:06.
        Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

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        • #5
          Huh?

          Originally posted by the ace View Post
          That's an interesting one. How right-wing would a Pole have to be to hate Stalin and his puppet government ?

          I can well imagine large numbers of Poles hankering after the Good Old Days of Nazi rule.

          I would be inclined to suggest that Poles, whatever their political allegiance, preferred a free Poland to a Soviet satellite, but they had to be fascists not to love Uncle Joe and his bumboys.
          Love Uncle Joe? He slaughtered their officer class at Katyn and other places.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by JCFalkenbergIII View Post
            Nationalism certainly played a part in some of the resistance after the war.
            This I read on another site,

            "According to Norman Davis in his book Rising 44 it was a civil war in Poland betwen 1944 and 1947. Fifteen regiments of NKVD troops were stationed in the country backing the Communist government as well as Red Army forces. He says official figues give communist security forces losses as 18,000. The groups leading the fighting against the communists were WiN a group with strong links to the AK anti German resistance group and the NSZ which if I remember correctly was a right wing resistance group.

            Fighting in the western Ukraine went on into the 50s led by the UPA which operated in western Ukraine and eastern Poland. The Polish Communist government deported aproximatly 250,000 Ukrainians from eastern Poland to the former German territories in western Poland.

            Resistance in the Baltic states continued on a small scale into the 50s with the last ones eliminated at a suprisingly late date but I have forgotten it. "

            Robert
            There's an old joke that goes. "Why do Ukrainian people pour motor oil onto the dirt beneath their rose bushes?" Answer: "To keep their machine guns from rusting."
            "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

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            • #7
              IIRC the last of the Baltic "Forrest Brothers" surrendered sometimes in the 80ies(!). Anyway, Alexander Perry Biddiscombe has written several fascinating books that contain a wealth of information about Anti-Allies/Anti-Soviet resistance movements during and after the war:

              The SS Hunter Battalions: The Hidden History of the Nazi Resistance Movement 1944-45

              The Last Nazis: SS Werewolf Guerrilla Resistance in Europe 1944-1947

              Werwolf!: The History of the National Socialist Guerrilla Movement, 1944-1946

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              • #8
                The resistance has nothing to do with Nazis and should not be confused with Werwolves. Many of the forest brethren fought also against the Nazis. Here's a Lithuanian example.

                Uncle Joe was pretty much universally hated for his actions while he was still in cahoots with Hitler and for most people caught between the tyrants there was little difference between the two.

                There was active fighting into the fifties with Lithuanians being able to field pretty decent sized formations. Very small skirmishes occurred even as late as the 70s and there were some individuals participating in the fighting who managed to hide until the end of occupation, although I don't think that includes any prominent figures.

                The resistance was supported by the British and was largely fueled by the widespread hope behind the Iron Curtain that the Allies would either hold by the promises made early in WWII whereby the war would not result in territorial changes and no country would lose its independence and/or the belief that WWIII was imminent. A lot of what the resistance did was actually to just prepare for WWIII hoping to welcome the Yankees and the Brits as the real liberators.
                Last edited by pp(est); 29 Mar 10, 02:25.

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                • #9
                  The main reason the Poles did not like the Soviets was they fought a war in 1919 and 1920 to stop from being re-attached to the Soviet Union. They were not ready to accept Soviet dominance in 1946 either.

                  Another case of different groups fighting each other might well be the former Yugoslavia as well. It wasn't just Chetnics versus Partisans.

                  Pruitt
                  Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                  Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                  by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                    The main reason the Poles did not like the Soviets was they fought a war in 1919 and 1920 to stop from being re-attached to the Soviet Union.
                    Have you ever heard that in 1919 they started a war to attach a big chunk if Soviet Union to themselves?
                    www.histours.ru

                    Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Barbarossa View Post
                      Love Uncle Joe? He slaughtered their officer class at Katyn and other places.
                      I was employing Sarcasm, Barbarossa. As far as our red friends were concerned, anyone who disliked them was a fascist.

                      I'm more inclined to believe that the anti-Soviet resistance in Eastern Europe was due to patriotism and a desire to preserve national identity than anything else, but that would make the Soviet Union the baddies.

                      Have you noticed how often bullies portray themselves as victims ?
                      Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by the ace View Post
                        Have you noticed how often bullies portray themselves as victims ?
                        Sometimes they're both.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                          Have you ever heard that in 1919 they started a war to attach a big chunk if Soviet Union to themselves?

                          Or was and did the Soviet Union attach a big chunk of Poland to itself? The areas being fought over were Poland before the partitions.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pp(est) View Post
                            Or was and did the Soviet Union attach a big chunk of Poland to itself? The areas being fought over were Poland before the partitions.
                            In 1919 Poland was finally recognised by Entente powers as an independent state. But it suddenly felt strong enough to take on weakened Russia and got an unexpectedly strong response while trying to grab more lands.

                            Are you suggesting we should start fighting for the parts of Russia before 1917 and it will be justified? Or maybe Germany should fight for its lost territories as well?

                            Therefore your reasoning is outright incitive and disingenous.
                            www.histours.ru

                            Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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                            • #15
                              Depends on what you call the Soviet Union...

                              Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                              Have you ever heard that in 1919 they started a war to attach a big chunk if Soviet Union to themselves?
                              From what I have read, there was a difference of opinion about whether the areas of Belarus and the Ukraine would join in with the Socialist brotherhood. Lenin gave the areas to Germany by Peace Treaty. The Red Army was the final arbiter. The Poles decided they should make sure the Eastern Polish enclaves were incorporated. The problem was they went TOO far East.

                              Up until the Red Army decided THEY should have a say, I would call Belarus and the Ukraine disputed territory. Once the Red Army started moving the Polish Army back, were they going to stop? Maybe in Berlin! The Poles were taught a lesson, but not the one Trotsky wanted.

                              What became East Poland was also home to Bearussians and Ukrainians. Sometimes the only way you could tell the locals apart was to notice which Church they went to. Catholics were Poles. The rest were either Jewish or Eastern Orthodox.

                              I don't say the Poles were entitled to the East or the Soviets, it was settled by arms.

                              Pruitt
                              Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                              Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                              by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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