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  • Riga battle remembrance march sparks Nazi controversy

    Riga battle remembrance march sparks Nazi controversy - The Guardian

    The centre of Riga was blanketed in snow and security forces this morning as a dwindling band of second world war survivors prepared to remember fallen comrades on what is the most contested date in the Baltic political calendar.

    The remembrance ceremonies at Riga's Freedom Monument and the Lutheran cathedral are hugely divisive because they pay tribute to those who fought alongside the Nazis in a vain attempt to halt the Red Army's re-conquest of the Baltic state in 1944.

    While Russians accuse the Latvians of Nazi revivalism and Jewish leaders protest at attempts to "rewrite history" and belittle the Holocaust, the veterans, all pushing 90, and Latvian nationalists insist they are entitled to remember a famous 1944 battle in which the Latvian legion comprising two divisions conscripted into Hitler's Waffen-SS linked up for the only time in the war to try to thwart Stalin.
    Just for the record - a notorious clip made by the "Fatherland and Freedom party" which participated in the organisation of this event:



    Evil Russian couple scoffs at the Latvian Christmas tree while a more Aryan Latvian mother and her daughter buy it. Note the party logo at the end of the clip.
    www.histours.ru

    Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

  • #2
    Another article on the topic:

    David Cameron's rightwing 'allies' march in Riga to commemorate the SS

    Battered by recession and emerging from the harshest winter in 30 years, Riga is bitterly divided over an annual commemoration that has also become an international controversy. Ever since David Cameron pulled the Conservative party out of the centre-right coalition in the European parliament to align the Tories alongside rightwingers such as Latvia's Fatherland and Freedom, which helps organise the SS event, an unexpected spotlight has shone on this corner of eastern Europe.

    The foreign secretary, David Miliband, has called such links "sickening". The Tory chairman, Eric Pickles, has accused critics of recycling "old Soviet smears" about the Latvians. And the annual SS veterans' march has become for many a disturbing symbol of rightwing extremism within the European Union.

    The ramifications of the row that electrified British politics and Brussels have now been felt in Riga. Tuesday's events have been banned by the courts – citing security reasons – at the behest of the pro-Russian Harmony party which controls Riga.

    The party's chairman, Janis Urbanovics, told the Observer that "although the legionnaires themselves decrease with time, the problem is increasing. After independence, this country became so preoccupied with hating Russia that it is not coming to terms with what happened during German occupation. We need that in order to draw a line under the past".
    www.histours.ru

    Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

    Comment


    • #3
      Do note the Swastika hidden in the party logo as well.
      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

      Comment


      • #4
        Shaa, what you wanted to say with this thread? That Latvians ara Nazi or what? Because of some comercial made by party that positions themself as rightwing party (there are plenty of such organizations in Europe. In Russia by the way also) and what`s wrong with this comercial - rightwinded party invites to buy goods from local producer to help them in current situation (that is quite difficult). Speaking about "party logo" - it`s fragment from national costume, in this particular case part of "Lielvardes josta"



        Some old veterans went to the church and placed flowers, so what? Soviet veterans do same in 9th of May, veterans of german army do this in 16th of March. One of my grandfathers were in Soviet army, other was mobilized in 19th Waffen SS division in 1943 and fought on the oher side. Both of them were combat soldiers and both had awards for combat performance, BUT both were fighting in foreign army, so which one of them I have to treat like criminal?

        Comment


        • #5
          Looks like wwe are talking about two different videos.

          What comes in a 0:43 on the orgiginal video has little in common with the one pic that you posted other that they are both red/white.
          "Ask not what your country can do for you"

          Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

          you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
            Looks like wwe are talking about two different videos.

            What comes in a 0:43 on the orgiginal video has little in common with the one pic that you posted other that they are both red/white.
            This was only as example. There are plenty of such things in national costumes even with more exact "svastika". For example

            They are called "ugunskrusts" (firecross) or "perkonkrusts" (thundercross) and it`s old ornaments of Balts and where used in national costumes for centuries.


            Here is link in Wiki with some more pictures.
            http://lv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvie%C5%A1u_ornamenti
            Last edited by Ulrih; 16 Mar 10, 10:04.

            Comment


            • #7
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZnb4XTqZik

              Here you can take a look at the one of the biggest culture events of Latvia - Song and Dance festival. There are also such simbols although it has nothing common with Nazis.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Ulrih View Post
                Shaa, what you wanted to say with this thread?
                Isn't it clear from the articles I've posted? That the veterans who fought for Hitler are marching in Riga and the European Union is condoning this.

                That Latvians ara Nazi or what?
                Don't even try to twist it this way. I haven't even typed "Latvians" here.

                Because of some comercial made by party that positions themself as rightwing party (there are plenty of such organizations in Europe. In Russia by the way also)
                Any major rally organised by a rightwing party, which sparks major controversy and makes such people like Wiesenthal come and speak against it is quite a "newsworthy" event.

                and what`s wrong with this comercial - rightwinded party invites to buy goods from local producer to help them in current situation (that is quite difficult).
                Oh, please This clip gives one a clear idea who's good and who's bad. If someone made perfectly the same clip about, say, Jews, he would be torn apart by the media. But if you're in such denial, here's another clip of this party which makes its position on the Russians much clearer. And one doesn't even need translation to see what they mean:



                The idea is that evil Russkies living in Latvia want to change language laws and then help evil Russia proper capture all Latvian blondes.

                By the way, it includes a part of this "ad about supporting local producers". I guess it's all purely about economics too

                Speaking about "party logo" - it`s fragment from national costume, in this particular case part of "Lielvardes josta"
                This line of defence managed to keep quite a few Nazis out of prison in Russia in the 1990s, until the Duma adopted a special law which stipulated that any symbols used as party logos and bearing resemblance to Nazi symbols can be considered extremist under certain circumstances. For example, the clearly Hitleresque Russian National Unity party used what they called "the 8-pointed star of Our Lady" and they indeed managed to get away with this explanation at some court trials.



                After the adoption of this law it was considered illegal, as well as the symbol of the National-Bolshevik party:



                Despite the communist symbols, this flag bears clear resemblance to the Nazi flag.

                I'm not calling to introduce such law everywhere as it has its negative sides as well, but my point is that the Nazis use a lot of tricks to convey their agenda by means of seemingly neutral symbols or clips or even texts in a "nudge nudge wink wink style". The logo of this party is one of them. I suppose the Latvian people have a lot of national patterns, and choosing this particular one for the party logo was hardly accidental.


                Some old veterans went to the church and placed flowers, so what? Soviet veterans do same in 9th of May, veterans of german army do this in 16th of March.
                They didn't simply go to lay flowers, this was an organised march and therefore a political and social statement.

                One of my grandfathers were in Soviet army, other was mobilized in 19th Waffen SS division in 1943 and fought on the oher side.Both of them were combat soldiers and both had awards for combat performance, BUT both were fighting in foreign army, so which one of them I have to treat like criminal?
                It is up to you to judge your ancestors, of course. Still I would hardly be proud of a grandfather who was part of Vlasov's army, for example. No matter what combat record he had and how patriotic he was.
                www.histours.ru

                Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

                Comment


                • #9
                  Is Latvia an independent nation, or is it not?

                  After the way Georgia has been whittled down, it's not paranoia anymore, Russia is looking more like a threat every day. Thus, even if those medieval swastikas mean what Putin says they mean and get a wink and a nod, who is really to blame for that?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
                    After the way Georgia has been whittled down
                    With Afghanistan and Iraq invaded, the brutal forces of the Evil Empire are threatening the existence of the whole world

                    Thus, even if those medieval swastikas mean what Putin says they mean and get a wink and a nod, who is really to blame for that?
                    WTF???? And sober up, this is a bit too much even for your regular wingnut drivel level
                    www.histours.ru

                    Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Must have hit hard with that one, here come the smilies and sarcasm.

                      Is Latvia an independent nation, or is it not?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
                        Must have hit hard with that one, here come the smilies and sarcasm.

                        Is Latvia an independent nation, or is it not?
                        Man, you must be really enjoying yourself when no one answers your questions because of their total irrelevance, and you think they are actually too tough to asnwer

                        But I'll humour you here. Russia, just like any other country, has its right to criticise other countries' policies. I guess living in the US gives one little idea how sickeningly obnoxious the US is with its criticism of other countries' internal affairs. Russia's got a lot a long way to catch up. So go speak to Condie Rice or whoever is there at the moment to lecture the others how great America is and how lowly they are compared to it.

                        Another thing is that Latvia is a part of EU, which declared democratic values as its guiding principles, and anti-Nazism is among them.
                        www.histours.ru

                        Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                          Man, you must be really enjoying yourself when no one answers your questions because of their total irrelevance, and you think they are actually too tough to asnwer

                          But I'll humour you here. ....
                          No, you launched into yet another distraction by attacking the US, which is not even a part of this discussion, and yet another "I know you are but what am I?" screed of schoolyard-level pap.

                          From another thread about the Russians, but just as relevant here-

                          Another problem they have is an incredible hyper-sensitivity to what the rest of the world thinks of them, or is thought to be thought of them.... and one and on.
                          If I were them, I would pull back, look at my own back yard and concentrate on what needs to be done to make things work. Not exactly a new challenge in that part of the world.


                          It may not be glorious or get your name in the papers that day, but building a better mousetrap or making the trains run on time is the kind of thing that makes a great nation great.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'm angry at Latvia for Dynamo Riga beating SKA in the playoffs this week, they don't even have proper hooligans.

                            A few things:

                            Aren't National-Bolsheviks 3rd Positionists?

                            I have read that in Latvia signs in Cyrillic are against the law, as well as making the language that most ethnic Latvians (at the time) did not speak very well the only official language.

                            In response to Exorcist. You asked if Latvia was a independent nation? Well officially, but they are part of the EU, and the EU has deemed certain freedoms of speech illegal. So from what I understand openly honoring Nazis is illegal (but I could be wrong, just how I understand it)

                            As for Russia being a threat to Latvia? Please. The last thing Russia wants is some conflict with the EU, or to take over a country that needs the rest of the EU to pay for building/maintaining roads. Russian roads need enough work.

                            Sasha - I wouldn't worry much about marches in Latvia, this is the same country that last year thought having 'Blonde Day' would fix their awful economy.

                            http://2164th.blogspot.com/2009/06/b...in-latvia.html
                            Кто там?
                            Это я - Почтальон Печкин!
                            Tunis is a Carthigenian city!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Shaa, they were not fighting for Hitler, but against Soviets also like latvians in Red Army were fihting against Nazis. Their only problem is that it was forbiden for Wehrmacht to mobilise people from conquered lands and germans evaded this rool by mobilising them under Waffen SS in 1943 when germans needed all manpower that they could get, although they even had grey standard uniform of Wehrmacht. Is it so hard to understand that most of our nation had nothing to fight for only against as both Nazis and Soviets were enemies of free Latvia (Estonia, Lithuania)? In your opinion Finns were criminals because they were allies of Hitler?

                              TB/LNNK does not organise anything today and these clips were on TV before elections in Riga city council, do you know how much votes they get? 3,3%. In the mean time pro-russian party "Saskanas centrs" with some similar comercials got 34.29% and member of this party is currently Riga city major. And do you know who was main sponsor of your belowed party TB/LNNK which you are showing as some ultra-nationalists dreaming about Nazi time? It`s Parex Bank and both of bank`s owners - Mr Kargin and Kravovicky, by the way they`re both jews. And they formed coalition with pro-russian party right after previous elections in Riga city council. So much for the "rightwing party"

                              And don`t be ridiculous.....What connection has your shown symbols with russian folklore? Please, visit Riga during Folk Song and Dance festival and you will see plenty of that in autentic national costumes and even in dance elements as I mentioned above. As I mentioned this is major event in Latvian culture and there are ~40 000 participants from all country. According to you they are all hidden Nazis and their costumes and dances are hidden propoganda of nacism, despite that their costumes etc. have couple centuries history?

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