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  • Hiroshima

    The Crew of the bomberplane "Emola Gay" witch threw the atomic bomb on the City of Hiroshima, Japan on 6th August 1945. That military action ended 20200806_093603.jpg the II World War and saved lives of US soldiers

  • #2
    Saw a mini documentary on You tube yesterday. There was some concern that the B29 would not be capable to carrying the nuclear bombs due to their size. As a back up from 1943 a flight of six black Lancasters were prepared and trained up. The Lancaster was the only Allied plane in service in 1943 plane capable of carrying a nuke. In the end the B29 was able to be adapted to carry the bombs so the Lancasters weren't needed.
    "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Surrey View Post
      Saw a mini documentary on You tube yesterday. There was some concern that the B29 would not be capable to carrying the nuclear bombs due to their size. As a back up from 1943 a flight of six black Lancasters were prepared and trained up. The Lancaster was the only Allied plane in service in 1943 plane capable of carrying a nuke. In the end the B29 was able to be adapted to carry the bombs so the Lancasters weren't needed.
      That would've been scary !

      While the Lanc's ability to carry the bomb wasn't in question, the speed/altitude thing would've made getting out before everything went splat VERY interesting. I know there were experiments with a saddle-tank and in-flight refuelling, which could probably have overcome any shortfall in range, but there was no way the Lanc's speed or altitude could've kept pace with the B-29.
      Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

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      • #4
        Originally posted by the ace View Post

        That would've been scary !

        While the Lanc's ability to carry the bomb wasn't in question, the speed/altitude thing would've made getting out before everything went splat VERY interesting. I know there were experiments with a saddle-tank and in-flight refuelling, which could probably have overcome any shortfall in range, but there was no way the Lanc's speed or altitude could've kept pace with the B-29.
        About 100 mph slower. The mini doc (a Mark Felton one) said that the Lanc would 'probably' have survived...
        "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Surrey View Post

          About 100 mph slower. The mini doc (a Mark Felton one) said that the Lanc would 'probably' have survived...
          Still brown trousers time.
          Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

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          • #6
            Not only could the B-29 carry a nuke, it could also carry two (2) Grand Slam bombs...

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            • #7
              BOOM!!!
              ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
              IN MARE IN COELO

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              • #8
                Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                Not only could the B-29 carry a nuke, it could also carry two (2) Grand Slam bombs...

                The standard B29 had two relatively small bomb bays. Both of which were too small for the nukes. Boeing had to produce a special 'silver plate' B29 to carry the bombs with the two bomb bays converted into one big one. There was a concern that removing the bit between the bomb bays would weaken the plane.
                "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                • #9
                  I’ve read it would’ve needed to take off from Okinawa, and the altitude it could carry it was lower than the B-29.
                  "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                  Ernest Hemingway.

                  "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
                  Mark Twain.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Surrey View Post

                    The standard B29 had two relatively small bomb bays. Both of which were too small for the nukes. Boeing had to produce a special 'silver plate' B29 to carry the bombs with the two bomb bays converted into one big one. There was a concern that removing the bit between the bomb bays would weaken the plane.
                    That was the early design. The one that actually got used had modified bomb attachment points and release mechanisms but retained the standard bomb bay configuration as you can see here.

                    Little_Boy_being_raised_for_loading_into_the_Enola_Gay%27s_bomb_bay.jpg

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Achtung Baby View Post
                      I’ve read it would’ve needed to take off from Okinawa, and the altitude it could carry it was lower than the B-29.
                      There were plans to refuel in the air. Some Lancasters had already been converted to tankers in anticipation of being used as part of Tiger Force.
                      "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Surrey View Post

                        There were plans to refuel in the air. Some Lancasters had already been converted to tankers in anticipation of being used as part of Tiger Force.
                        Not sure if the humidity would’ve been favourable.
                        "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                        Ernest Hemingway.

                        "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
                        Mark Twain.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          EXCERPT/QUOTE:
                          1945
                          August 09
                          Atomic bomb dropped on Nagasaki

                          On August 9, 1945, a second atom bomb is dropped on Japan by the United States, at Nagasaki, resulting finally in Japan’s unconditional surrender.

                          The devastation wrought at Hiroshima was not sufficient to convince the Japanese War Council to accept the Potsdam Conference’s demand for unconditional surrender. The United States had already planned to drop their second atom bomb, nicknamed “Fat Man,” on August 11 in the event of such recalcitrance, but bad weather expected for that day pushed the date up to August 9th. So at 1:56 a.m., a specially adapted B-29 bomber, called “Bockscar,” after its usual commander, Frederick Bock, took off from Tinian Island under the command of Maj. Charles W. Sweeney.
                          .....
                          https://www.history.com/this-day-in-...ed-on-nagasaki

                          .......
                          Also of related note:
                          .....
                          (Excerpt/Quote: )



                          Silverplate was the code reference for the United States Army Air Forces' participation in the Manhattan Project during World War II. Originally the name for the aircraft modification project which enabled a B-29 Superfortress bomber to drop an atomic weapon, "Silverplate" eventually came to identify the training and operational aspects of the program as well. The original directive for the project had as its subject line "Silver Plated Project" but continued usage of the term shortened it to "Silverplate".

                          Testing began with scale models at the Naval Proving Ground in Dahlgren, Virginia, in August 1943. Modifications began on a prototype Silverplate B-29 known as the "Pullman" in November 1943, and it was used for bomb flight testing at Muroc Army Air Field in California commencing in March 1944. The testing resulted in further modifications to both the bombs and the aircraft.

                          Seventeen production Silverplate aircraft were ordered in August 1944 to allow the 509th Composite Group to train with the type of aircraft they would have to fly in combat, and for the 216th Army Air Forces Base Unit to test bomb configurations. These were followed by 28 more aircraft that were ordered in February 1945 for operational use by the 509th Composite Group. This batch included the aircraft which were used in the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945. Including the Pullman B-29, 46 Silverplate B-29s were produced during and after World War II. An additional 19 Silverplate B-29s were ordered in July 1945, which were delivered between the end of the war and the end of 1947. Thus, 65 Silverplate B-29s were made.

                          The use of the Silverplate codename was discontinued after the war, but modifications continued under a new codename, Saddletree. Another 80 aircraft were modified under this program. The last group of B-29s was modified in 1953, but never saw further service.
                          ..........
                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverplate

                          ..........
                          BTW, an interesting footnote of sorts.

                          I had an uncle, another Fred Bock, whom served with the 14th Air Force in the CBI - China, Burma, India Theater during the war.

                          Another interesting coincidence ......
                          (Excerpt/Quote)
                          Moritz Albrecht Franz Friedrich Fedor von Bock (3 December 1880 – 4 May 1945) was a German Generalfeldmarschall who served in the German Army during the Second World War. Bock served as the commander of Army Group North during the Invasion of Poland in 1939, commander of Army Group B during the Invasion of France in 1940, and later as the commander of Army Group Center during the attack on the Soviet Union in 1941; his final command was that of Army Group South in 1942.
                          ......
                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedor_von_Bock


                          Bock is a rather common German name, still I find it rather interesting that my family name plays prominent roles in both starting and ending World War Two.
                          TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                          “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
                          Present Current Events are the Future's History

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                            Not only could the B-29 carry a nuke, it could also carry two (2) Grand Slam bombs...

                            I'm not convinced those are Grand Slam bombs, which are 22000Ibs each. The normal bomb load of a B-29 was a maximum of 20000Ibs, less than half that of two Grand Slams, and that when doing so, had a maximum height of 8000ft. A Grand Slam needed to be dropped from 13000ft, preferably much higher. Even if they were Tallboys, at 12000Ibs each, would limit the ceiling of the B-29, the bombs themselves needing to be dropped from an ideal height of 18000ft.

                            However, aircraft are 'not my thing', and am I relying on sites like the Pacific War Online Encyclopedia.
                            http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/B/-/B-29_Superfortress.htm
                            How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                            Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

                              I'm not convinced those are Grand Slam bombs, which are 22000Ibs each. The normal bomb load of a B-29 was a maximum of 20000Ibs, less than half that of two Grand Slams, and that when doing so, had a maximum height of 8000ft. A Grand Slam needed to be dropped from 13000ft, preferably much higher. Even if they were Tallboys, at 12000Ibs each, would limit the ceiling of the B-29, the bombs themselves needing to be dropped from an ideal height of 18000ft.

                              However, aircraft are 'not my thing', and am I relying on sites like the Pacific War Online Encyclopedia.
                              http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/B/-/B-29_Superfortress.htm
                              Boeing Wichita modified several B-29 for hauling Grand Slams, Tallboys, and even testing the 42,000 lbs. T-12 Cloudmaker bomb.





                              Basically, the B-29's normal load was with an intended certain combat radius and altitude. It is clearly possible that the B-29 could and did lift larger loads than the normal rated bombload.

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