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Was The Empire of Japan ever stronger compared to The United States?

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  • Was The Empire of Japan ever stronger compared to The United States?

    Was the Empire of Japan Ever stronger compared to the United States?

    I felt that the answer might be yes when it comes to 1939 or 1940. At this time the EOJ Controlled Manchuria as well as making advances into French Indo China as well as the Dutch East Indies.

    It wasn’t until March 1941 when The United States kicked Lend Lease into the high gear...Which ushered in an unprecedented creation of millions of middle class jobs in the auto and munitions industries. This allowed the US military to catapult from being ranked around 15th in the world to the number one military superpower.
    Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
    Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

    George S Patton

  • #2
    I suppose it all depends upon how you assess strength
    "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
    Samuel Johnson.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post
      I suppose it all depends upon how you assess strength
      The ability for a country to defend itself or take over another country.
      Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
      Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

      George S Patton

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      • #4
        By that criteria I would say definitely no. With the exception of aircraft and ships (neither of which can hold a land surface) the EOJ had an obsolete military. They were unable to defeat a Western Power at all during the war (by which I mean force them to surrender).
        All they did was take colonies from them which were mostly retaken over the course of the war.
        Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

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        • #5
          I disagree that Japan was ever stronger than the US. The IJA was fully committed in China and had to devote first rate resources on the Soviet Border. The IJN was comparable to the US Navy, but the US could transfer ships from the Atlantic.

          Pruitt
          Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

          Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

          by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
            Was the Empire of Japan Ever stronger compared to the United States?

            I felt that the answer might be yes when it comes to 1939 or 1940. At this time the EOJ Controlled Manchuria as well as making advances into French Indo China as well as the Dutch East Indies.

            It wasn’t until March 1941 when The United States kicked Lend Lease into the high gear...Which ushered in an unprecedented creation of millions of middle class jobs in the auto and munitions industries. This allowed the US military to catapult from being ranked around 15th in the world to the number one military superpower.
            No, the Japanese empire could never compete with the industry the USA could bring to the war so they really had no hope to win. When they attacked Pearl Harbor they sealed their fate. It was just a matter of time and lives.

            “Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” -- Albert Einstein

            The US Constitution doesn't need to be rewritten it needs to be reread

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            • #7
              Here is another take..from quora One contributor suggests in the beginning of the war that the Empire of Japan was stronger compared to the USA

              ——-Top military powers initially and first half of WW2 :

              1. Nazi-Germany
              2. Soviet Union
              3. Japan
              4. China
              5. France
              Others

              Top military powers second half of WW2 :
              1. Soviet Union
              2. Nazi-Germany (note)
              3. USA (note)
              4. Japan
              5. China
              Others

              Note: USA bypassed nazi-Germany around year-end 1944/1945.

              Reasons, initially and first half.
              Nazi-Germany, Soviet Union and Japan had by far the biggest military forces initially and during the first half of WWII. As the war theatres and war results also clearly show.
              France had a considerable army, but relied too much on the Maginot line. It also had a limited but quite modern navy.
              Britain had a minor army but the most powerful navy in the world.
              USA had hardly no army or air force. Its sea power had however a certain strength, but limited compared Britain and Japan.

              Reasons, second half:
              Soviet Union managed to recover from its enormous early war losses and now became the biggest army. It also recovered from the enormous air force losses and developed a huge powerful air force that gained air superiority on the Eastern front.
              Nazi-Germany remained a very strong military power throughout the war. But was bypassed by Soviet some half way through the war. And also by USA at the end of it.
              USA also mobilized enormously, but had its ultimately built-up huge multimillion army available only in the last months of WWII. USA also built-up the most powerful navy and bypassed both Britain’s and Japan’s navies.
              Japan remained strong throughout the war and was USA’s opponent in the Pacific war.
              Britain’s relative power fell. Even though it mobilized major forces, still had a mighty navy, and also a mighty air force. And remained as such one of the strongest military powers.
              France was defeated in 1940 by Germany.

              As the question made focus only on “military power” the different countries’ production capacity, access to crucial resources, etc. are not considered.

              25.3K views
              View 36 Upvoters
              Related Questions (More Answers Below)——

              https://www.quora.com/Which-country-...of-World-War-I
              Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
              Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

              George S Patton

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              • #8
                There were a number of National Guard divisions that most people discount. There were also some Reserve Divisions being raised in 1940-41. In real life the US Army would raise divisions and then split them to raise new divisions. Some divisions did not see combat until 1945. The US Army could rebuild divisions that had been savaged in combat.

                The aircraft were being built in 1940-42 when France and the UK had really funded expansion of the American Aircraft industry. The Japanese did not have enough modern aircraft to cover the entire area. There were several aircraft that could compete if they changed their training. Wildcats and Tomahawks could not dogfight with Zeros and Hayabusas. They could dive on them and zoom back to altitude. The US could and did replace its dated designs. The Japanese could not build enough replacements in a timely matter.

                The IJA equipment I compare to WWI equipment. The Artillery was smaller and did not have enough range. The Japanese Tanks did not compete with even the M-3 Stuart. The M-3 Grant really cleaned up on them.

                Pruitt
                Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                  Here is another take..from quora One contributor suggests in the beginning of the war that the Empire of Japan was stronger compared to the USA

                  ——-Top military powers initially and first half of WW2 :

                  1. Nazi-Germany
                  2. Soviet Union
                  3. Japan
                  4. China
                  5. France
                  Others

                  Top military powers second half of WW2 :
                  1. Soviet Union
                  2. Nazi-Germany (note)
                  3. USA (note)
                  4. Japan
                  5. China
                  Others

                  Note: USA bypassed nazi-Germany around year-end 1944/1945.

                  Reasons, initially and first half.
                  Nazi-Germany, Soviet Union and Japan had by far the biggest military forces initially and during the first half of WWII. As the war theatres and war results also clearly show.
                  France had a considerable army, but relied too much on the Maginot line. It also had a limited but quite modern navy.
                  Britain had a minor army but the most powerful navy in the world.
                  USA had hardly no army or air force. Its sea power had however a certain strength, but limited compared Britain and Japan.

                  Reasons, second half:
                  Soviet Union managed to recover from its enormous early war losses and now became the biggest army. It also recovered from the enormous air force losses and developed a huge powerful air force that gained air superiority on the Eastern front.
                  Nazi-Germany remained a very strong military power throughout the war. But was bypassed by Soviet some half way through the war. And also by USA at the end of it.
                  USA also mobilized enormously, but had its ultimately built-up huge multimillion army available only in the last months of WWII. USA also built-up the most powerful navy and bypassed both Britain’s and Japan’s navies.
                  Japan remained strong throughout the war and was USA’s opponent in the Pacific war.
                  Britain’s relative power fell. Even though it mobilized major forces, still had a mighty navy, and also a mighty air force. And remained as such one of the strongest military powers.
                  France was defeated in 1940 by Germany.

                  As the question made focus only on “military power” the different countries’ production capacity, access to crucial resources, etc. are not considered.

                  25.3K views
                  View 36 Upvoters
                  Related Questions (More Answers Below)——

                  https://www.quora.com/Which-country-...of-World-War-I
                  Doesn't matter, none could compete with the USA's industrial might. Unless they could take large sections of the US quickly they were doomed. USA could absorb material losses like no other country because USA could build more, better, faster.

                  “Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” -- Albert Einstein

                  The US Constitution doesn't need to be rewritten it needs to be reread

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by slick24 View Post
                    No, the Japanese empire could never compete with the industry the USA could bring to the war so they really had no hope to win. When they attacked Pearl Harbor they sealed their fate. It was just a matter of time and lives.
                    I agree. However, there are many What If situations postulated for Germany. For example, if the Germans had not spent so much time and effort trying to liquidate their Jewish work force, could they have done better? Or, if Germany had helped liberate the Russians and enrolled them in an effort to overthrow Stalin, could it have worked?

                    I just do not see much the Japanese could have done differently. There were no vast resources of manpower or anything else with which they could readily turn. It does seem that anything the Japanese Empire did could only prolong the war and never win it.
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                    • #11
                      yes, I agree the German's were a much bigger threat than the Japanese.

                      “Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” -- Albert Einstein

                      The US Constitution doesn't need to be rewritten it needs to be reread

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                        Was the Empire of Japan Ever stronger compared to the United States?

                        I felt that the answer might be yes when it comes to 1939 or 1940. At this time the EOJ Controlled Manchuria as well as making advances into French Indo China as well as the Dutch East Indies.

                        It wasn’t until March 1941 when The United States kicked Lend Lease into the high gear...Which ushered in an unprecedented creation of millions of middle class jobs in the auto and munitions industries. This allowed the US military to catapult from being ranked around 15th in the world to the number one military superpower.
                        Hi

                        As Belgrave states it depends on how you quantify strength and hopefully not just on Top Trumps logic or by playing the board game Risk

                        Militarily the EoJ was more competent and capable than America but in the context of specific instances and only for a short time frame.

                        Regards

                        Andy H
                        "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Churchill

                        "I'm no reactionary.Christ on the Mountain! I'm as idealistic as Hell" Eisenhower

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                        • #13
                          The following is from a 120+page booklet published during WW2 by a member of The Third Reich. A unique source in the sense that we see a wartime material of an ally of The Empire of Japan. Like how Soviet or American articles praised each others might during WW2, its no surprise to see a glowing measure of the EOJ by Mr von Urach.

                          The Secret of Japan’s Strength


                          by Albrecht Fürst von Urach


                          Introduction
                          [Full Text]
                          The rise of Japan to a world power during the past 80 years is the greatest miracle in world history. The mighty empires of antiquity, the major political institutions of the Middle Ages and the early modern era, the Spanish Empire, the British Empire, all needed centuries to achieve their full strength. Japan’s rise has been meteoric. After only 80 years, it is one of the few great powers that determine the fate of the world.


                          What did the rest of the world, or we in Germany, know only two generations ago about Japan? Let us be honest. Very little.

                          One had heard of an island nation in the Far East with peculiar customs, of an island nation that produced fine silk and umbrellas from oiled paper, that honored a snow-capped mountain as if it were a god. They drank tea and had the curious custom of slitting their bellies open. One had heard of smiling, powdered girls with black hair and colorful silk clothing who strolled under cherry trees and lived in houses of wood and paper. But one was not sure if the small and sturdy men of this peculiar people, some of whom came to Europe to learn eagerly, wore pigtails and ate rotten eggs back at home, or whether one was confusing them with the Chinese, since both peoples after all had slitted eyes.


                          Everything about Japan and the Japanese seemed attractive, a good place to visit on a world tour to enjoy the sights before European-American civilization put it all under protection to preserve it from decline, just as had happened to the Hawaiians, the Papuans, and the other small and dying peoples of the Pacific. One honestly regretted that so many interesting native customs were condemned to die out.

                          That was what our grandfathers knew about Japan. And today? Today Japan’s rising sun waves from the frozen northern sea to the coast of India. Today the once strongest powers tremble under the blows of Japan’s mighty power. Today the island nation of a hundred million Japanese leads with unbreakable will the millions of East Asia who make up a third of the world’s population. Today a huge kingdom has risen with a powerful heart where just 80 years ago an unknown people lived on their isolated island, satisfied with themselves and with no need or desire to leave the bounds of their islands. A powerful center of power has developed where only 80 years ago the conquerors and economic pioneers of Europe and America believed there was a colony that could easily be taken over.

                          That is the amazing and unique miracle of Japan’s meteoric rise. The world today looks in amazement. Amazed, astonished, and also terrified that they had not earlier recognized the mysterious causes, but also the compelling logic that led to this fabulous ascent.

                          We, the Axis powers, face the same enemies in our struggle in Europe as our Japanese allies. We understand what drives them to such accomplishments, for we too are today struggling for our existence and for our future. Still, the mysterious strength behind Japan’s unique accomplishments is a riddle for most of us.


                          https://research.calvin.edu/german-p...hive/japan.htm
                          Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                          Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                          George S Patton

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                          • #14
                            The short answer is no. Certainly in naval power Japan was never superior. As the US showed, raising a huge army was something that could be done in a relatively short time so the lack of such an army at any point is really irrelevant. Japan was really limited to about 30 to 40 divisions of quality troops by WW 2 standards, while the US could have easily raised about 200. As it was in WW 2, the US did raise about 100 and supplied various Allies with the material to raise another 50 +.

                            When you top that off with the IJA of WW 2 essentially being a very well equipped WW 1 era army, that doesn't bode well for the Japanese either.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                              The short answer is no. Certainly in naval power Japan was never superior. As the US showed, raising a huge army was something that could be done in a relatively short time so the lack of such an army at any point is really irrelevant. Japan was really limited to about 30 to 40 divisions of quality troops by WW 2 standards, while the US could have easily raised about 200. As it was in WW 2, the US did raise about 100 and supplied various Allies with the material to raise another 50 +.

                              When you top that off with the IJA of WW 2 essentially being a very well equipped WW 1 era army, that doesn't bode well for the Japanese either.
                              Great to see you back.

                              The Empire of Japan may not have surpassed the United States in military strength. But the EOJ may have been able to compete on a level field with the United States in 1940 or early 1941. One could imagine a what if scenario. If the Empire of Japan would’ve attempted to invade The west coast of the USA in 1940 or 1941. By 1941 the Germans had already scored a surprise victory over the French in a very fast fashion. If Germany could have assisted Japan with such an invasion of the United States in anyway in early 1941 this would have put the United States in a dangerous spot. That the United States needed months to build up it’s great industrial Might is something to keep in mind.

                              Either way it’s a fair point to suggest the Empire of Japan may have been stronger than the United States before lend lease in March 1941. I fully understand that at its height in World War II the USA was stronger than Japan. But as the original post points out I’m talking about before March of 1941.



                              The EOJ gained fame for example in the early 20th century by defeating the Russian Empire in the Russian Japanese war. This war saw an up-and-coming power in Japan take out a world power with success in the Russian Empire.

                              Decades later and during World War II the Japanese would score an impressive victory against the British Empire at the battle of Singapore for example. The Malayan campaign was a great success for the Empire of Japan against a world power in the British. The point is that the Empire of Japan proved itself by 1941 as being a capable powerhouse. Attached is the map of the Empire of Japan at its height in the 1940s.
                              Attached Files
                              Last edited by Stonewall_Jack; 21 Jul 20, 11:13.
                              Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                              Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                              George S Patton

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