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Best General of WWII?

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  • Best General of WWII?

    Who was it?
    "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

    "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

  • #2
    Slim!

    Pruitt
    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
      Slim!

      Pruitt
      I'd vote for Slim myself.

      But in the interests of widening debate, I'd offer von Manstein:
      • Depending on who's telling the story, possibly responsible for the attack through the Ardennes in 1940
      • Managing Soviet counterattacks on the Crimea while still investing Sevastopol
      • Dealing with the wreckage of Army Group South after Stalingrad
      • The backhand blow
      One of the old criteria for a field marshals baton was the successful completion of a siege, so von Manstein actually has a legitimate claim. But for me the clincher was the handling of the retreat from Stalingrad. A withdrawal/strategic retreat is commonly viewed as one of the most difficult campaigns to manage, and von Manstein did it superbly.

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      • #4
        Zhukov
        Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

        That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by DingBat View Post

          I'd vote for Slim myself.

          But in the interests of widening debate, I'd offer von Manstein:
          • Depending on who's telling the story, possibly responsible for the attack through the Ardennes in 1940
          • Managing Soviet counterattacks on the Crimea while still investing Sevastopol
          • Dealing with the wreckage of Army Group South after Stalingrad
          • The backhand blow
          One of the old criteria for a field marshals baton was the successful completion of a siege, so von Manstein actually has a legitimate claim. But for me the clincher was the handling of the retreat from Stalingrad. A withdrawal/strategic retreat is commonly viewed as one of the most difficult campaigns to manage, and von Manstein did it superbly.
          Mannstein received the strongest divisions in the German army and fought against exhausted units in Red Army short on supply. Not a miracle.
          There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

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          • #6
            Patton, he didn't just fight the Germans he fought the bureaucracy. Being proud to be a soldier was something alien to a population that had resisted entering the war but Patton understood how important it was.
            We hunt the hunters

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            • #7
              Patton was the only US general that led in the 'old Army way' and he had more combat experience than either Eisenhower or Bradley (Eisenhower never had any, and War II was Bradley's first taste of it-it was Patton's third war).

              Patton was the only American commander the Germans were scared of.

              Slim was an excellent, and very underrated commander, as was Alexander, and neither usually get the credit they deserve. Alexander was superior to Montgomery, as he was to Clark and it is unfortunate that he wasn't a part of the invasion of France.

              On the German side, Manstein, Rommel, Heinrici, and Guderian were outstanding commanders and Yamashita for the Japanese.
              We are not now that strength which in old days
              Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
              Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
              To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                Mannstein received the strongest divisions in the German army and fought against exhausted units in Red Army short on supply. Not a miracle.
                Actually, it was the other way round, especially after he assumed command of the small 11th Army in the Crimea.
                He was dubbed a 'feldherr' (master of the field) by the troops he led and fully deserved the accolade.
                We are not now that strength which in old days
                Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Massena View Post

                  Actually, it was the other way round, especially after he assumed command of the small 11th Army in the Crimea.
                  He was dubbed a 'feldherr' (master of the field) by the troops he led and fully deserved the accolade.
                  11th Army was certainly not small. 14 divisions is the size of a Soviet front. Furthermore, he had one of the best artillery supports that German army had during the war in addition to the support of a Luftflotte.

                  http://www.niehorster.org/011_german...d/army_11.html

                  Similary at Kharkhov, he had three fresh and extremly powerful SS divisions plus Grossdeutshland and other panzer/motorized divisions.
                  There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Massena View Post

                    Patton was the only American commander the Germans were scared of.
                    Of which there was any proof. Furthermore, he never gave them the occasion for such behavior.
                    There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

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                    • #11
                      I tend to think there wasn't one. A single one at least. In general I think that most of the more prominent names of both sides of the German-Soviet conflict, who were there at least till 43 had or acquired understanding of both the tactical realities of warfare and maybe more significantly, the all-important principle of concentration and the resulting need for economy of force, surprise and deception. And to them collectively I'd give out the award. While the in-detail execution of those principles varied to some degree, in broad strokes I feel there's quite little to differentiate them. The Brits were probably 75% there but not quite.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Massena View Post
                        Patton was the only American commander the Germans were scared of.
                        This is an oft repeated claim, yet it feels apocryphal. Who actually said this and when?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rojik View Post
                          Zhukov
                          Zhukov tends to receive all of the attention on the Soviet side. For me, his failure in Operation Mars shows a tendency to sheer brute force tactics.

                          I might submit Rokossovsky as an alternative.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DingBat View Post

                            Zhukov tends to receive all of the attention on the Soviet side. For me, his failure in Operation Mars shows a tendency to sheer brute force tactics.

                            I might submit Rokossovsky as an alternative.
                            There was not many different options with the cards he had at hand.
                            There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                              Patton, he didn't just fight the Germans he fought the bureaucracy. Being proud to be a soldier was something alien to a population that had resisted entering the war but Patton understood how important it was.
                              He was arrogant first of all. Bureacrats were much more efficient for winning the war.
                              There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

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