Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Every now and then...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Every now and then...

    Thanks to the law of averages, even my kids, gets something right!!!


    cgq08rvxxr3qlmvd9uvec3qj969iogdy.jpg




    The long toll of the brave
    Is not lost in darkness
    Over the fruitful earth
    And athwart the seas
    Hath passed the light of noble deeds
    Unquenchable forever.

  • #2
    What is the depicted battle?
    Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

    Comment


    • #3
      The last stand of the 10th Battalion Parachute Regiment in the Oosterbeek Perimeter, Arnhem, September 1944.
      The long toll of the brave
      Is not lost in darkness
      Over the fruitful earth
      And athwart the seas
      Hath passed the light of noble deeds
      Unquenchable forever.

      Comment


      • #4
        Great!
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Von Richter View Post
          The last stand of the 10th Battalion Parachute Regiment in the Oosterbeek Perimeter, Arnhem, September 1944.
          Is it technically a "last stand" if they had survivors that were evacuated?
          Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

          Prayers.

          BoRG

          http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Von Richter View Post
            The last stand of the 10th Battalion Parachute Regiment in the Oosterbeek Perimeter, Arnhem, September 1944.
            https://friendsofthetenth.co.uk/the-...eptember-1944/
            The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Salinator View Post

              Is it technically a "last stand" if they had survivors that were evacuated?
              Good question that, old bean. I'm not sure of the answer, Nearly 600 men of the 10th Bn. went to Arnhem, less than 100 came out. Almost all the units Officers were killed or wounded, their Colonel dying in one of the buildings depicted in the painting. After the survivors returned to Blighty the Battalion was disbanded, most of it's survivors going to 1st Parachute Brigade.
              So, does that count as a last stand, there were some of the 7th Cavalry left still alive, after your Country's most famous last stand?

              Last edited by Von Richter; 27 Dec 19, 05:36.
              The long toll of the brave
              Is not lost in darkness
              Over the fruitful earth
              And athwart the seas
              Hath passed the light of noble deeds
              Unquenchable forever.

              Comment


              • #8
                Battles that were considered a 'Last Stand' had survivors for the most part (except Little Big Horn excluding Reno's group).

                French Foreign Legion company at Camerone had 16 survivors, 7 died in captivity.

                British at Isandhlwana had 350 soldiers survive and only five British Officers reached safety--no wounded survive.

                Recommend for those interested in these types of battles:

                Bryan Perrett, "Last Stand! Famous Battles Against the Odds" (covers the paratroopers at Arnhem Bridge)

                Robert Barr Smith, "To the Last Cartridge: From the Siege of Constantinople to Vietnam's Ia Drang Valley"
                Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Von Richter View Post

                  Good question that, old bean. I'm not sure of the answer, Nearly 600 men of the 10th Bn. went to Arnhem, less than 100 came out. Almost all the units Officers were killed or wounded, their Colonel dying in one of the buildings depicted in the painting. After the survivors returned to Blighty the Battalion was disbanded, most of it's survivors going to 1st Parachute Brigade.
                  So, does that count as a last stand, there were some of the 7th Cavalry left still alive, after your Country's most famous last stand?

                  The 'Last stand' refers to the last battle, not how many survived. lcm1
                  'By Horse by Tram'.


                  I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
                  " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The RSM's nailed it in my 'umble opinion, during WW2 we raised several 'war time only' Regiments, these marched off into history at war's end. Their Regimental last stands were somewhere in Holland or Germany in 1945, in small locations now long forgotten.

                    The long toll of the brave
                    Is not lost in darkness
                    Over the fruitful earth
                    And athwart the seas
                    Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                    Unquenchable forever.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Perrett, in his introduction, notes the following points:

                      "The concept of men selling their lives as dearly as possible forms an honored part of mot national histories and also the basis of military tradition. This is itself serves to underline the fact that while all armies talk of fighting to the last man and the last round, such events are the exception rather than the rule." ...

                      "Armies do not fight to the last man and the last round; nor do large formations such as corps and divisions. Those units that do so are invariably small, ranging in size form a platoon to a battalion, and sometimes in the British Army to a brigade (Korea), which is the equivalent of a regiment in other armies."

                      Perrett is a former British Army officer and an experienced military historian.
                      Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The Japanese had more genuine 'last stands' in WWII than everyone else put together, period.
                        However we in the West (with some notable exceptions such as myself ) are not comfortable discussing this.
                        As I said before in another thread:

                        "Essentially the issue is a simple exercise in taking ‘us’ out of our comfort zones and preconceptions.
                        Why do we view the Japanese soldier so differently from ourselves?
                        Why are ‘they’ almost never described a s heroic in the traditional sense of how we westerners think of the term?
                        Fanatical, yes but heroic?
                        Why the differentiation and frankly why the unease"
                        Loved this topic back in the day especially when the ole “I’m not a racist but” argument would raise its ugly head."


                        Ahhhhh….. comfort zones a godsend to those who love real debate.

                        Seasons Greetings to all
                        lodestar


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          "Last Stand" being the last battle is too vague without a lot of qualifications, because it'll make just about any final battle of a unit into a last even in victory, defeat, withdrawal, etc, and all final battles of a war into a "Last Stand".

                          There probably are many battles where a unit or group fought to the last man and we simply never knew about it because there were no survivors and not all victors are kind enough to give those guys that last mark of glory for all history. Not to mention being lost in time due to obscurity of lost of historical texts. It is easy to see why most "Last Stands" that we do know about had survivors.

                          At Thermopylae during the battle, other than the non-Spartans, there were no survivors. There were two Spartans, Aristodemus and Eurytus that were sent home early by Leonidas due to eye infections, but one of them turned back to rejoin the other 297 Spartans before the actual fight despite his blindness. Ari who didn't turn back was shamed and called a coward. Wait, isn't there one Spartan missing?Yes, Pantites, ordered to Thessaly on a diplomatic mission and got back to Thermopylae too late for the battle. Ashamed of not have died in battle and not wanting to live with the label of a coward, Pantites hung himself. Ari redeemed himself at Plataea the following year. He went total ape-sh!t, broke out of phalanx formation and charged the Persians all by himself, apparently kicking some serious ass before being killed. The Spartans stopped calling him a coward after that.

                          As for the WWII Japanese fighting to the last man and crazy banzai charges, that was inspired by the last Samurai battle against the new Japanese Imperial Army, at the Battle of Shiroyama. The Samurai at the battle died to the last man, ending the Samurai Class and the Age of the Samurai. No, Tom Cruise was not there, The Last Samurai movie did have one thing correct, the last ones that were still able to stand, charged to their deaths and those that could not, either committed seppuku by themselves or were helped. They did overlook the part where they took their Daimyo's body down the hill, took off his head and hid it so it could not be found before the final final charge of valor.
                          Last edited by Salinator; 31 Dec 19, 08:26.
                          Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

                          Prayers.

                          BoRG

                          http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Salinator View Post
                            "Last Stand" being the last battle is to vague wiithout a lot of qualifications, because it'll make just about any final battle of a unit into a last even in victory, defeat, withdrawal, etc, and all final battles of a war into a "Last Stand".

                            There probably are many battles where a unit or group fought to the last man and we simply never knew about it because there were no survivors and not all victors are kind enough to give those guys that last mark of glory for all history. Not to mention being lost in time due to obscurity of lost of historical texts. It is easy to see why most "Last Stands" that we do know about had survivors.

                            At Thermopylae during the battle, other than the non-Spartans, there were no survivors...…………………………...…………………………………………………………. As for the WWII Japanese fighting to the last man and crazy banzai charges, that was inspired by the last Samurai battle against the new Japanese Imperial Army, at the Battle of Shiroyama, the Samurai at the battle died to the last man, ending the Samurai Class and the Age of the Samurai.

                            Yes an interesting comparison: The familiar, comfortable, instantly and almost 'misty eyed admirable and above all 'western' (ie European) Spartan's last stand and ……. the strange, quite uncomfortably unfamiliar almost incomprehensible and of course 'non-Western' Japanese last stand(s).

                            . What's the difference?
                            . Are most people naturally predisposed to 'their own kind' and do we, as a result, have a jaundiced view of
                            'Oriental' actions? (sorry couldn't resist)
                            . We are some people so desperate to avoid facing things in history which just don't fallow their preconceived
                            narrative?


                            Loved raising just this comparison in a tute in '75.
                            Great to watch those little picket-fence, white bread, strait-jacketed 'all ords' (as we tutors called them behind their backs) start to squirm, try to deflect, somehow suggest "yes but that was different 'they' (the Japanese) couldn't think for themselves" and all sorts of other reality denying tricks before conceding I was right and prostrating themselves before my greatness!

                            God I miss those days.
                            Teaching people HOW to think, NOT what to think!
                            Like extracting teeth with a lot of them.....but when they'd see the light (that is to say when they saw things my way) ..... worth every effort!

                            If I could I'd go back in a heart-beat..

                            lodestar was called a man with no honour, no courage, no integrity and no honesty. To which he replied: "Hey, you forgot to add no moral compass!! How could you miss that one?"

                            Regards lodestar


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hard to separate the heroic, last stand fighting Nip, from the one that ties his prisoner to a tree with barbed wire and uses him for bayonet practice...
                              Any of the students you enjoyed talking down to come up with that one Yer Lowness?

                              The long toll of the brave
                              Is not lost in darkness
                              Over the fruitful earth
                              And athwart the seas
                              Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                              Unquenchable forever.

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X