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  • Konigsberg/Kaliningrad

    So, why, all these years later, is Kaliningrad still Kaliningrad and not Konigsberg even though Leningrad and Stalingrad both changed thier names back to thier pre-revolution names?

    Why is it still so closed off from the rest of the world?

    Is it true that the Prussian/Teutonic cultural monuments were all destroyed including the Citadel of the Teutonic Knights?

    Did the Soviets really expel or kill all the OstPrussians? What is the future of a Kaliningrad surrounded by EU countries?

    What happened there after the surrender in 1945? My history books and magazine articles are all pretty shadowy and vague.
    Givin' you the scoop, the poop, the skinny and the scuttlebutt since 1969!

  • #2
    I did find these pix.....so it looks like some Deutsch Kultur has survived, after all.

    http://www.euronet.nl/~jlemmens/trakehnen.html
    Givin' you the scoop, the poop, the skinny and the scuttlebutt since 1969!

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    • #3
      Re: Konigsberg/Kaliningrad

      Originally posted by Fenrir
      So, why, all these years later, is Kaliningrad still Kaliningrad and not Konigsberg even though Leningrad and Stalingrad both changed thier names back to thier pre-revolution names?

      Why is it still so closed off from the rest of the world?

      Is it true that the Prussian/Teutonic cultural monuments were all destroyed including the Citadel of the Teutonic Knights?

      Did the Soviets really expel or kill all the OstPrussians? What is the future of a Kaliningrad surrounded by EU countries?

      What happened there after the surrender in 1945? My history books and magazine articles are all pretty shadowy and vague.
      The reason is that change of Leningrad to St. Petersburg is one of communist to a tsarist name, both are Russian.
      However, to change Kaliningrad to its Prussian name of Konigsberg while it is still considered Russian territory would go too far.
      Lance W.

      Peace through superior firepower.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Re: Konigsberg/Kaliningrad

        Originally posted by Lance Williams
        The reason is that change of Leningrad to St. Petersburg is one of communist to a tsarist name, both are Russian.
        However, to change Kaliningrad to its Prussian name of Konigsberg while it is still considered Russian territory would go too far.
        But this Kalinin guy was The president of the Soviet Union or some such thing.....

        I'm fascinated that Russia still maintains an iron grip on Prussia, the nexus of German militarism and the perch from which the German eagle has looked to the east for so long.
        Givin' you the scoop, the poop, the skinny and the scuttlebutt since 1969!

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        • #5
          Re: Re: Re: Konigsberg/Kaliningrad

          Originally posted by Fenrir
          But this Kalinin guy was The president of the Soviet Union or some such thing.....

          I'm fascinated that Russia still maintains an iron grip on Prussia, the nexus of German militarism and the perch from which the German eagle has looked to the east for so long.
          The reality is that Kaliningrad is very isolated from the rest of Russia and I would not be surprised if within the next 20-25 years it changes hands again.
          Lance W.

          Peace through superior firepower.

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          • #6
            Re: Re: Re: Re: Konigsberg/Kaliningrad

            Originally posted by Lance Williams
            The reality is that Kaliningrad is very isolated from the rest of Russia and I would not be surprised if within the next 20-25 years it changes hands again.
            That's what I understand. I've read that most Russians don't know it's part of Russia. I'm sure our esteemed russian posters, oleg and andrey know all about it being WW2 buffs and such.

            Do you care to speculate the fate of Kaliningrad?

            Part of Lithuania? Poland? I would amazed and astounded if it were handed back to Germany...I'm sure the various military facilities built up over the years preclude that...but you never know. I would imagine that reuniting Prussia with Germany would be hugely unpopular in that part of the world and there would still be the "polish corridor" (of course, much wider now).

            I think I'll post at the RKKA in WW2 and see what they say...
            Givin' you the scoop, the poop, the skinny and the scuttlebutt since 1969!

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            • #7
              Re: Konigsberg/Kaliningrad

              Originally posted by Fenrir
              So, why, all these years later, is Kaliningrad still Kaliningrad and not Konigsberg even though Leningrad and Stalingrad both changed thier names back to thier pre-revolution names?

              Why is it still so closed off from the rest of the world?

              Is it true that the Prussian/Teutonic cultural monuments were all destroyed including the Citadel of the Teutonic Knights?

              Did the Soviets really expel or kill all the OstPrussians? What is the future of a Kaliningrad surrounded by EU countries?

              What happened there after the surrender in 1945? My history books and magazine articles are all pretty shadowy and vague.
              They deported the Germans without compensation. Did similar in West Poland I believe too, but not sure on what scale.

              Monuments, I don't know, but it would not be out of the ordinary.

              Kaliningrad? He was a devoted Stalinist, so not any kind of pride or vanity issue. Maybe they are loath to return to a German names.

              With Stalingrad, that was simply de-Stalinization. Leningrad's change was more for trying to restore the pride and glory of the city, its greatest days were as St Petersburg.
              Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
              (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

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              • #8
                It isn't going to go back to Germany. Maybe Lith will take it? It sure is a source of tension in the Baltics (no one likes having Russians on both sides of you).

                Renaming- well they are not going to give it its German name back.

                There is a rumbling about renaming St. P to Leningrad to commemorate the suffering (much like Stalingrad's movement).
                "Give a soldier an anvil, just a hunk of metal, and drive him out into the desert and leave him. In two weeks - when you go to get him, the anvil will be broken."
                General Creighton Abrams on the need for a soldier proof tank.

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                • #9
                  Any information on what the residents of Kaliningrad want?
                  http://canadiangenealogyandresearch.ca

                  Soviet and Canadian medal collector!

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                  • #10
                    Hey, Fenrir, you asked this question some time ago.

                    http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...=&threadid=658

                    And I suppose that you knew enough in that time...

                    And it is the same like to discuss

                    "Why didn't US give California back for Mexico?" or "Why didn't US give Alyska back to Russia?"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The reason we wont give Alaska back to Russia is that we bought it. We didnít take it in a war.
                      Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tsar
                        The reason we wont give Alaska back to Russia is that we bought it. We didnít take it in a war.
                        I can answer that Russian tsar didn't ask opinion of Russian people which disagree with it. But it is only joke from my side.

                        It was only example of complete nonsense. Nobody in Russia discusses question of leaving of Kaliningrad.

                        Kaliningrad was got by legal path from state-aggressor as pay for destructions in USSR, other countries including US and GB approved it. It is not the same to attack suddenly other country and capture part of this country.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Andrey
                          I can answer that Russian tsar didn't ask opinion of Russian people which disagree with it. But it is only joke from my side.
                          Itís okay nobody asked the American public if we wanted to buy it. In fact the purchase was called Sewardís folly after our Secretary of state at the time.
                          Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

                          Comment

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