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All in the Mind? The psychological effect of Tiger Tanks and 88ís

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  • Cult Icon
    replied
    105 and 150 mm

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  • JustAGuy
    replied
    Color me confused. ...

    Nick the Noodle says:

    "You know more than anybody that 88's were unimportant on the battlefield in 44. You know they were not there in any significant numbers."

    And Gooner says:

    "So all told hundreds of 88s in Normandy."

    So which is it?


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  • lcm1
    replied
    Thank you big G, I did not do any counting but there just had to be a reasonable amount in service. lcm1

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  • Gooner
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post


    There were two flak corps (III and IV) in the West from D-Day on and between them had between them about 100 88's in the field depending on the exact time period you look at. That doesn't include static batteries, which could easily double the number of guns encountered.
    Third Flak corps in Normandy at peak strength had 29 four-gun 88mm batteries.
    88mm Flak batteries were also found, typically 3 of them, in the motorised and panzer divisions flak battalions.
    As an example 21st Panzer on 1st June '44 had 24 88s in the anti-tank battalion and a further 12 in the anti-aircraft battalion.
    So all told hundreds of 88s in Normandy.

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  • Cult Icon
    replied
    502nd Tiger battalion (in AGN) was very dominant in its under-resourced sector. This unit produced numerous "aces" with some of the largest numbers.

    The Russians and Americans do something similar in their reports- constantly throwing around the word Tiger when it's not a tiger.

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  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

    You know more than anybody that 88's were unimportant on the battlefield in 44. You know they were not there in any significant numbers.
    The 88/ 56 as an antiaircraft gun was relatively common on battlefields in 1944, particularly when the Germans were on the defensive in a static position. The Luftwaffe deployed large numbers of them and frequently had large stockpiles of ammunition for their guns. Flak had become the major and most important arm of the Luftwaffe in terms of defense of the Reich.
    So, while the Heer and SS deployed few 88 guns-- mostly the 88/71 antitank gun in corps or army level separate battalions-- the Luftwaffe was putting dozens and dozens of 88/56 into the field for air defense. Because of the availability of ammunition, these guns were frequently used as impromptu artillery.
    There were two flak corps (III and IV) in the West from D-Day on and between them had between them about 100 88's in the field depending on the exact time period you look at. That doesn't include static batteries, which could easily double the number of guns encountered. This is particularly true if Allied units were advancing against targets bombers attacked or routes that bombers flew to get to their targets.

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  • lcm1
    replied
    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

    You know more than anybody that 88's were unimportant on the battlefield in 44. You know they were not there in any significant numbers.
    Now look mate, I didn't count them, we were rather busy at the time, significant or insignificant I do not know, what I do know and remember I will tell you. The sound of them coming in was blood chilling, you get three firing at the same time and the sound was almost continuous and couple with that the accuracy if you survive, it is a sound and happening you will never forget. That my friend did NOT come out of a book!! lcm1

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  • Von Richter
    replied
    Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit
    The highest form of ignorance
    And where ignorance predominates
    Vulgarity asserts itself



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  • G David Bock
    replied
    Guys, I think Nick is trying to be humorous and sarcastic, (so I hope).

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  • Von Richter
    replied
    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

    You know more than anybody that 88's were unimportant on the battlefield in 44. You know they were not there in any significant numbers.
    I'm re-reading a book called 'With The Jocks', the author's platoon keep getting stonked by them 88s...
    that weren't there!

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  • 101combatvet
    replied
    I believe the MG 34, 42, and 44 had a more psychological effect.

    "That's the sound of the notorious German MG 42. Sounds bad, right? Don't worry. It's bark is worse than it's bite."

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  • Nick the Noodle
    replied
    Originally posted by lcm1 View Post

    Except that this 'Old Bloke' is dead crafty and did not commit himself on things like Jerrie Tanks!! ( To use a harmless old joke that would be considered racist nowadays,) " I didn't come over on a banana boat" lcm1
    You know more than anybody that 88's were unimportant on the battlefield in 44. You know they were not there in any significant numbers.

    Leave a comment:


  • lcm1
    replied
    I did say 'OLD'!! Ken Burt.

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  • MarkV
    replied
    Originally posted by lcm1 View Post

    Except that this 'Old Bloke' is dead crafty and did not commit himself on things like Jerrie Tanks!! ( To use a harmless old joke that would be considered racist nowadays,) " I didn't come over on a banana boat" lcm1
    Just an aside from the thread topic. banana importers like Geest in the 1980s converted their banana boats into cargo liners with quite luxurious accommodation for a limited number of passengers who wanted a cruise to some of the less tourist infested parts of the Caribbean. If you came over in a banana boat these days you'd have had to have a bit of brass in your pocket.

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  • lcm1
    replied
    Originally posted by Von Richter View Post

    He's a bloke who knows more than most about Jerry's big cats.
    As a foot up the arse about my comment, to somebody a lot like our very own RSM who was there... my mate said...

    "We stonked them with 25pdrs and blew the camouflage off, I still wasn't sure what they were till we took the village and found a Tiger broken down and abandoned."

    That old bloke , long dead now, was one of my Heroes.

    Except that this 'Old Bloke' is dead crafty and did not commit himself on things like Jerrie Tanks!! ( To use a harmless old joke that would be considered racist nowadays,) " I didn't come over on a banana boat" lcm1

    Leave a comment:

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