Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

All in the Mind? The psychological effect of Tiger Tanks and 88ís

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post


    There were two flak corps (III and IV) in the West from D-Day on and between them had between them about 100 88's in the field depending on the exact time period you look at. That doesn't include static batteries, which could easily double the number of guns encountered.
    Third Flak corps in Normandy at peak strength had 29 four-gun 88mm batteries.
    88mm Flak batteries were also found, typically 3 of them, in the motorised and panzer divisions flak battalions.
    As an example 21st Panzer on 1st June '44 had 24 88s in the anti-tank battalion and a further 12 in the anti-aircraft battalion.
    So all told hundreds of 88s in Normandy.

    Comment


    • #77
      Thank you big G, I did not do any counting but there just had to be a reasonable amount in service. lcm1
      'By Horse by Tram'.


      I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
      " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

      Comment


      • #78
        Color me confused. ...

        Nick the Noodle says:

        "You know more than anybody that 88's were unimportant on the battlefield in 44. You know they were not there in any significant numbers."

        And Gooner says:

        "So all told hundreds of 88s in Normandy."

        So which is it?


        Comment


        • #80
          Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
          105 and 150 mm
          ???????? Is this more of the "special shorthand" I've encountered here or just an incomplete thought?

          Comment


          • #81
            Originally posted by JustAGuy View Post
            Color me confused. ...

            Nick the Noodle says:

            "You know more than anybody that 88's were unimportant on the battlefield in 44. You know they were not there in any significant numbers."

            And Gooner says:

            "So all told hundreds of 88s in Normandy."

            So which is it?


            III Flak Corps in Normandy at peak had 29x4 88s plus received 59 replacement guns, so 175 x 88s for them alone.
            The 11 Panzer and PzG divisions also had at least 12 flak 88s each so we're north of 300 88s in Normandy already.
            Then add all the 88s in the anti-tank units plus the flak 88s in fixed positions in Normandy on 6th June. Then if you will add the 88s in the Tigers and Jagdpanthers and we're looking at 500+.

            Also, any weapon is significant if its firing at you personally ..

            Comment


            • #82
              A Veteran told me that the further they got into Europe/Germany the worse the non existent 88s became!
              Dug in and entrenched anti- aircraft guns had prodigious amounts of ammunition... of which Jerry tried to fire off before the advancing allies overran them.
              The long toll of the brave
              Is not lost in darkness
              Over the fruitful earth
              And athwart the seas
              Hath passed the light of noble deeds
              Unquenchable forever.

              Comment


              • #83
                lcm1, Gooner, and Von Richter...... Thank you for answering my question.

                Your answers match up with what I have been told over the years. I know the Germans had other guns including those captured from France and Russia, but had never heard anyone say there were too few 88s to matter in 1944.

                Comment


                • #84
                  Originally posted by Von Richter View Post
                  A Veteran told me that the further they got into Europe/Germany the worse the non existent 88s became!
                  Dug in and entrenched anti- aircraft guns had prodigious amounts of ammunition... of which Jerry tried to fire off before the advancing allies overran them.
                  88's were usually AA weapons. Once Germany was reached AAA 88's became more common. So were 128's.
                  How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                  Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

                  Comment


                  • #85
                    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

                    You know more than anybody that 88's were unimportant on the battlefield in 44. You know they were not there in any significant numbers.
                    Will you please clarify this for me in light of the recent posts by others?

                    Comment


                    • #86
                      Originally posted by Von Richter View Post
                      A Veteran told me that the further they got into Europe/Germany the worse the non existent 88s became!
                      Dug in and entrenched anti- aircraft guns had prodigious amounts of ammunition... of which Jerry tried to fire off before the advancing allies overran them.
                      Yes, they knew that there was no question of resupply!! lcm1
                      'By Horse by Tram'.


                      I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
                      " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

                      Comment


                      • #87
                        Originally posted by JustAGuy View Post

                        Will you please clarify this for me in light of the recent posts by others?
                        Check OOB/TOE of Nazi units and you will find 88mm's are relatively few. As far as AT weapons are concerned the '40' family of 75mm guns will be a tankers greatest concern. As far as HE artillery is concerned, 105mm/150mm will be met in greater numbers. Check ammunition expenditure of these guns. They are available if one can be bothered to look.
                        How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                        Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

                        Comment


                        • #88
                          Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

                          Check OOB/TOE of Nazi units and you will find 88mm's are relatively few. As far as AT weapons are concerned the '40' family of 75mm guns will be a tankers greatest concern. As far as HE artillery is concerned, 105mm/150mm will be met in greater numbers. Check ammunition expenditure of these guns. They are available if one can be bothered to look.
                          Thank you for the response.
                          Last edited by JustAGuy; 03 Nov 18, 19:51.

                          Comment


                          • #89
                            Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

                            Check OOB/TOE of Nazi units and you will find 88mm's are relatively few. As far as AT weapons are concerned the '40' family of 75mm guns will be a tankers greatest concern. As far as HE artillery is concerned, 105mm/150mm will be met in greater numbers. Check ammunition expenditure of these guns. They are available if one can be bothered to look.
                            Well Nick,I hate to keep hammering at the personal experience but I must say that the use of the 88 as an anti personal weapon was noted. So do you think that this extra rarity may have left the impression of an increase in the use? lcm1
                            'By Horse by Tram'.


                            I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
                            " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

                            Comment


                            • #90
                              Slightly off topic, but I've just got to a very interesting paragraph in 'With The Jocks'.
                              Spring '45, the Platoon's over the Rhine and bedded down/dug in for the night when they're on the receiving end of a devastating artillery stonk. Their Occifer (the author) relates it more devastating and concentrated, even than the dreaded 88s, half the Platoon are killed and wounded and their Veteran Sergeant killed... the culprits, three British 17pdr SP guns.
                              The long toll of the brave
                              Is not lost in darkness
                              Over the fruitful earth
                              And athwart the seas
                              Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                              Unquenchable forever.

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X