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All in the Mind? The psychological effect of Tiger Tanks and 88ís

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  • Nick the Noodle
    replied
    Originally posted by lcm1 View Post
    Ah, come on Nick, I have not just fallen out of a tree, you are just dying to have me commit myself so that you can run to your little books and find a black hole in my statements. You are not the first as any long term member of this Forum can tell you. But, I will tell you this much, as your little books will tell you the 33rd Btn was the first Btn to be ready for service after being re grouped following D Day. They came into their overseas service again in early 1945. All this you will find in your little books! What you will not find is they sent an advance Company in late December 1944 into Belgium to see what the situation was like for the battalion to participate. I was a member of that company serving as a infantryman come Medic S.B. As you know the front was very fluid at that time and we found that we became involved in several scraps, deliberately, because that is what we were there to find out. How's that then mate, good enough for you?? lcm1
    I was the one that found out that the 33rd suffered a KIA in April 1945 when all the official documentation stated that your unit did not reach Germany until May 45 after the conflict. While a single KIA proves that 88mm's are all bark and almost no bite at best, why have you never mentioned said individual. The single KIA would have stood out, and honoured.

    OTOH, thank you for your service on 6.6.44.

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  • lcm1
    replied
    Thank you JAG. lcm1

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  • JustAGuy
    replied
    Originally posted by lcm1 View Post
    Ah, come on Nick, I have not just fallen out of a tree, you are just dying to have me commit myself so that you can run to your little books and find a black hole in my statements. You are not the first as any long term member of this Forum can tell you. But, I will tell you this much, as your little books will tell you the 33rd Btn was the first Btn to be ready for service after being re grouped following D Day. They came into their overseas service again in early 1945. All this you will find in your little books! What you will not find is they sent an advance Company in late December 1944 into Belgium to see what the situation was like for the battalion to participate. I was a member of that company serving as a infantryman come Medic S.B. As you know the front was very fluid at that time and we found that we became involved in several scraps, deliberately, because that is what we were there to find out. How's that then mate, good enough for you?? lcm1
    Respect!

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  • lcm1
    replied
    Ah, come on Nick, I have not just fallen out of a tree, you are just dying to have me commit myself so that you can run to your little books and find a black hole in my statements. You are not the first as any long term member of this Forum can tell you. But, I will tell you this much, as your little books will tell you the 33rd Btn was the first Btn to be ready for service after being re grouped following D Day. They came into their overseas service again in early 1945. All this you will find in your little books! What you will not find is they sent an advance Company in late December 1944 into Belgium to see what the situation was like for the battalion to participate. I was a member of that company serving as a infantryman come Medic S.B. As you know the front was very fluid at that time and we found that we became involved in several scraps, deliberately, because that is what we were there to find out. How's that then mate, good enough for you?? lcm1

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  • Nick the Noodle
    replied
    Originally posted by lcm1 View Post

    Nick, I know what an 88 looks like, I know what they sound like, we over ran 3 88s that had been firing on our area with ground bursts (timed to explode just above ground level ) the reason we over ran them was they had run out of ammunition and scarpered leaving their guns. A common problem they had at that stage of the war. lcm1
    Please can you remember any details where your 33rd RM Battalion, 117th RM brigade, was fighting at the time?

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  • lcm1
    replied
    Now that's interesting, I know I should read more got a stack of good books relating to WW2. I blame this form of obtaining knowledge for making me lazy about reading!! lcm1

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  • JustAGuy
    replied
    Originally posted by lcm1 View Post

    Nick, I know what an 88 looks like, I know what they sound like, we over ran 3 88s that had been firing on our area with ground bursts (timed to explode just above ground level ) the reason we over ran them was they had run out of ammunition and scarpered leaving their guns. A common problem they had at that stage of the war. lcm1
    Just found a similar incident in which an M7 105mm How SP was knocked out by an 88 using airbursts.

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  • lcm1
    replied
    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

    Yet the round has an impact fuse, thus far less effective than a much larger 105 mm or 150 mm round, fired more often, and with air burst effect.

    The 88mm is a catch all for all heavier German guns from my readings, much like the Tiger for tanks, or Spandau's for mg's.
    Nick, I know what an 88 looks like, I know what they sound like, we over ran 3 88s that had been firing on our area with ground bursts (timed to explode just above ground level ) the reason we over ran them was they had run out of ammunition and scarpered leaving their guns. A common problem they had at that stage of the war. lcm1

    Leave a comment:


  • JustAGuy
    replied
    Originally posted by Michele View Post

    I wasn't aware of a FlaK 43 model. The FlaK 41's production run was limited and late. So this would in and by itself restrict the use of time fuzes by "88s" - I put that in quotes because at this point one should take into account that there were significant differences in the various models. Apparently, these fuzes would not be used by earlier, more widespread AA 88s (the FlaK 18, 36 and 37), and they would obviously not be supplied to batteries of AT 88s (PaK 43, 43/41).
    And that is not taking into account the production shortage of these more complex fuses.
    Production shortage? I would have thought there would have been plenty of mechanical time fuses because of the threat of Allied aircraft. What were they using instead?

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  • JustAGuy
    replied
    Originally posted by Michele View Post

    I wasn't aware of a FlaK 43 model. The FlaK 41's production run was limited and late. So this would in and by itself restrict the use of time fuzes by "88s" - I put that in quotes because at this point one should take into account that there were significant differences in the various models. Apparently, these fuzes would not be used by earlier, more widespread AA 88s (the FlaK 18, 36 and 37), and they would obviously not be supplied to batteries of AT 88s (PaK 43, 43/41).
    And that is not taking into account the production shortage of these more complex fuzes.
    You are correct. I corrected my previous post. (This is all new to me. If I made a mistake would someone please let me know.)

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  • Nick the Noodle
    replied
    Originally posted by Gooner View Post

    Just above you, Nick. R. Bacon of the Calgary Highlanders.
    "Please give your view of the main reason for the adverse moral effectiveness of the three weapons you have marked

    88mm anti-tank guns effective because They are used on personnel - you cannot hear it coming - is so accurate

    http://www.calgaryhighlanders.com/hi...queslbacon.htm
    Yet the round has an impact fuse, thus far less effective than a much larger 105 mm or 150 mm round, fired more often, and with air burst effect.

    The 88mm is a catch all for all heavier German guns from my readings, much like the Tiger for tanks, or Spandau's for mg's.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gooner
    replied
    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
    Again, I can find no reason why an 88 mm HE (2.25 Ibs p442) would be more feared than a 105 mm (3 Ibs p471) or an even more massive 150 mm artillery rounds.
    Just above you, Nick. R. Bacon of the Calgary Highlanders.
    "Please give your view of the main reason for the adverse moral effectiveness of the three weapons you have marked

    88mm anti-tank guns effective because They are used on personnel - you cannot hear it coming - is so accurate

    http://www.calgaryhighlanders.com/hi...queslbacon.htm

    Leave a comment:


  • Michele
    replied
    Originally posted by JustAGuy View Post

    Pages 441, 443 - 444 of your source shows the 88mm HE projectile Type L/4.7 used a "mechanical time fuze." It was for use in the Flak 41 and 43 AA guns.
    I wasn't aware of a FlaK 43 model. The FlaK 41's production run was limited and late. So this would in and by itself restrict the use of time fuzes by "88s" - I put that in quotes because at this point one should take into account that there were significant differences in the various models. Apparently, these fuzes would not be used by earlier, more widespread AA 88s (the FlaK 18, 36 and 37), and they would obviously not be supplied to batteries of AT 88s (PaK 43, 43/41).
    And that is not taking into account the production shortage of these more complex fuzes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cult Icon
    replied
    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

    I have the book, actually took the time to get hold of it, but lacking energy to look for the specific information at present.
    Yes- I remember that you mentioned that you had it too. It'll take at least 15 minutes with a calculator hah

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  • Nick the Noodle
    replied
    Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
    I have a copy of Zetterling's Normandy 44', which has the equipment status of all German units in the campaign. 88mm would figure distinctly in the minority of the German artillery park. someone else who has the book too could do a count if they are so inclined.
    I have the book, actually took the time to get hold of it, but lacking energy to look for the specific information at present.

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