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All in the Mind? The psychological effect of Tiger Tanks and 88’s

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  • Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

    If a combat infantry battalion only has one KIA from artillery, we can safely assume the artillery was ineffective.

    OTOH, given that a KIA means the unit was in combat, we can safely assume 88mm's were not effective.
    Hmm. We can safely assume that the one 88mm battery that fired on that one day, against that one battalion, causing that one KIA, was not truly lethal. That's more or less everything we can safely assume.

    Would that be an average result representing all 88mm batteries in all sorts of anti-personnel fire throughout the war?
    Well, how are we to know that? Maybe the crewmen had decided that day to finish up the Schnapps crate.

    And I say "lethal" because you could easily have up to 10 WIAs for one KIA, and those are all casualties. All artillery was more likely to wound than to kill, it still was a very effective way to reduce the actual combat strength of the targeted unit. Knowing how many KIAs a unit suffered is not the same as knowing how many total casualties of all sorts.
    Michele

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    • Originally posted by Michele View Post

      Hmm. We can safely assume that the one 88mm battery that fired on that one day, against that one battalion, causing that one KIA, was not truly lethal. That's more or less everything we can safely assume.

      Would that be an average result representing all 88mm batteries in all sorts of anti-personnel fire throughout the war?
      Well, how are we to know that? Maybe the crewmen had decided that day to finish up the Schnapps crate.

      And I say "lethal" because you could easily have up to 10 WIAs for one KIA, and those are all casualties. All artillery was more likely to wound than to kill, it still was a very effective way to reduce the actual combat strength of the targeted unit. Knowing how many KIAs a unit suffered is not the same as knowing how many total casualties of all sorts.
      Now there is a good point!! For that 1 KIA there could have also been 10 or a dozen wounded in fact Mr KIA could have died later from wounds received at the same time as the 10 or so! I remember helping to pick up wounded, some of whom looked pretty grotty and could have died back in the UK . I also suspect that the register of wounded and killed originates from the Btns: records made at the time and do not include the fatalities that occur a week or so later, all from the same explosion!! lcm1
      Last edited by lcm1; 19 Nov 18, 19:26.
      'By Horse by Tram'.


      I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
      " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

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      • From "Tigers in Normandy" by Schneider (beginning of the conclusions chapter- I have a digital copy so the page number is wrong). The author also has big books on the SS Tiger 502 and 503

        "In the fighting around the greater area of Caen there were a total of 134 Tigers employed—12 of them being the Tiger II. They were hardly ever employed in a strength greater than that of two platoons, however. The single largest cohesive operation took place on 11 July 1944 with the 21 tanks of schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 102 on both sides of Hill 112. These were joined by several vehicles of schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 101. The Tigers were predominately employed in the smallest of groups."
        Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
        Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
        Barbarossa Derailed I & II
        Battle of Kalinin October 1941

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        • From the Appendix:

          -June 1944: SS Tiger 101 had a maximum of 18 Tigers operational.

          -July 1944: SS Tiger 101 had a Max of 21. SS Tiger 102 had a Max of 28. Tiger 503 had a Max of 40.

          -August 1944: SS Tiger 101 had a Max of 21. SS Tiger 102 had a Max of 21. Tiger 503 had a Max of 13.

          These were the absolute highest figures, on the majority of days the strengths were much lower.
          Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
          Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
          Barbarossa Derailed I & II
          Battle of Kalinin October 1941

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