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What was your most memorable face to face, stand-up altercation about WWII?

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  • What was your most memorable face to face, stand-up altercation about WWII?

    What was your most memorable face to face altercation about WWII?

    Okay, maybe altercation is too strong a word? (lodestar opens with a rare concession…benevolent lodestar)

    Let’s call it a robust and spirited discussion ie: a shouting match (lodestar as master of metaphor - oh and if it’s not actually a metaphor it’s still brilliant).

    Well enough of prologue (lodestar gets to the point).

    Naw seriously, I’m always reminiscing with my old history buff buddies and buddiesses, former tutors and students (acolytes and lodestar worshippers one and all) about the ancient pre-internet world when people actually you know….. spoke person to person, face to face, opinion to opinion, misconception to misconception.
    Anyone else rememb
    er those days?

    With the incredibly fast spread of the WWW and the seemingly almost complete domination of discussion, debate and dialog in many areas it has now achieved, I find myself missing the old days more and more.
    Okay, okay I’m probably viewing the whole thing through very rose-coloured classes but some of the older posters must know what I mean?

    One of the best aspects of that era was the way some discussion could get very heated very fast.

    This was especially so when prejudices, national pride, sacred cows, popular misconceptions and conventional wisdoms came into play.

    If fueled by a few drinks and/or some err..ummm…… other lubricants, discussion could be great entertainments that were thoroughly enjoyable most of the time.

    However, especially when it came to World War Two they could become pretty vigorous at times.
    Mostly when peoples politics, ethnic origins and 'set ideas' were ruffled.

    I recall several topics that were guaranteed to wind people up no end.
    These included in rough chronological order:

    .The German people and the ‘why’ of Hitler

    . The politics of the Spanish Civil War

    . The morality of appeasement, the German/Soviet Non-aggression pact and the failure to help Ethiopia

    . The reasons for failing to support Poland directly in 1939

    . The French

    . Dunkirk

    . Mers El-Kebir

    . The chances of the Germans invading Britain in 1940

    .The importance or otherwise of the so-called ‘sideshow’ or ‘secondary’ campaigns (North Africa, the Mediterranean/ Italian theatres, the Western Front, China, India, Burma, New Guinea etc.)

    . The reasons Barbarossa failed

    . The nature of the regime that that defeated Hitler (ie the Soviet Union) and the nature of the war on the Eastern Front and whether the two regimes were equally reprehensible.

    . American isolationism

    . The morality of allied area bombing

    . The importance or otherwise of lend-lease

    . The destruction of Monte Cassino

    . Accusations of ‘feet-dragging’ avoiding major land -war effort and casualty aversion on the part of the Anglo-Americans

    .The timing of D-Day

    . Yalta

    . The ‘Race to Berlin’

    . Who contributed most to defeating Nazi Germany

    . Hiroshima

    Etc. etc.
    They were great exercises in polemics and the more heated they got the more I liked ‘em coz I was always right.

    Anyway what ‘robust and spirited discussions’ can posters recall with people who were either very ignorant ….or dare I say it better at presenting their case that you were?
    Looking forward to your input.

    lodestar was neither liked nor trusted. Not by those who raised him, those he grew up with and went to school with, those he worked with and associated with as an adult, nor those who know him now.
    One woman told him she felt uneasy around him because: 'Your eyes are the colour of dirty coins.'


    Regards lodestar


  • #2
    Altercation about WWII?!? Your social circle is showing.
    Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

    Comment


    • #3
      Never happened. Whenever I was in the same room with someone so ignorant about this topic (or any other topic, FWIW) that an altercation would have been warranted, I also knew he was so ignorant that the altercation wasn't worth my time.

      Just as I ignore some statements made not face-to-face, i.e. online.

      I do sometimes have heated discussions online. Online forums like this are self-selecting, so it's much more likely that I can discuss with knowledgeable people online than in any actual real-life meeting. Average people in real life don't know much about, nor care about, WWII.

      In favor of online debating, one can say that its not being in real time improves the quality. Both myself and the other person have time to go and look for sources. We can quote those sources. These are things that are nearly impossible face-to-face, unless one has prepared for the meeting knowing that WWII will actually be discussed.
      Michele

      Comment


      • #4
        I was at the National Air Force Museum at Dayton with the IPMS in full force. I caught one of the fanbois under the ME-262, with his camera a-clicking and asked him, sweetly, why he felt called upon to photograph wheelwells that are already documented ad nauseum. He pulled a solemn face and said, "I am interested in the technology that we defeated." I laughed and laughed, almost as hard as when another one of them got stuck in the cockpit of the F-117. I then asked him which German response to a W.allied coup is best example of operational virtuosity? He said, dreamily, "All of them " and told me had to go catch a plane to New Zealand.
        Will no one tell me what she sings?--
        Perhaps the plaintive numbers flow
        For old, unhappy, far-off things,
        And battles long ago:
        -William Wordsworth, "The Solitary Reaper"

        Comment


        • #5
          A face-to-face altercation discussing WWII … I can't remember having one of those

          I do remember knowing more about the war than my schools history teachers by about the age of 12 though

          Comment


          • #6
            Wartime reenactment weekend on the North Yorks Moors Railway. We was on one of the trayns when a couple of them sad wankers, who feel that dressing in nazi SS uniforms gives 'em gonads like coconuts, got on. They started demanding to see everyone's 'papers'... it went downhill right quick when they got to us.


            The long toll of the brave
            Is not lost in darkness
            Over the fruitful earth
            And athwart the seas
            Hath passed the light of noble deeds
            Unquenchable forever.

            Comment


            • #7
              Yes, I was with a group of mates in a Pub in Exeter early 44, also in that same bar was a group of American Service men. The beer was flowing and loud American voices were proclaiming to everyone within about 3 miles that they had to come over to win the war for us. Now despite the fact that there was a certain amount of truth in the comments, it was a tricky subject to bring up in a city that had been badly bombed and a country that had already been at war for three plus years. The argument had become quite rough when someone yelled out ..'REDCAPS'!!! and military bodies disappeared in all directions! We were banned from that area of Exeter from then on. lcm1
              'By Horse by Tram'.


              I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
              " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

              Comment


              • #8
                What, no more yarns to add? come on Lads and Lasses, I thought that this was a good thread! lcm1
                'By Horse by Tram'.


                I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
                " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

                Comment


                • #9
                  My best one had nothing to do with WW 2. It was demolishing Larry Bond (a Tom Clancy protégé and original author of Harpoon at an LA wargame convention. He was not a happy camper. The Chief owned that Ensign... Well he was a jg at the time so...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by lcm1 View Post
                    Yes, I was with a group of mates in a Pub in Exeter early 44, also in that same bar was a group of American Service men. The beer was flowing and loud American voices were proclaiming to everyone within about 3 miles that they had to come over to win the war for us. Now despite the fact that there was a certain amount of truth in the comments, it was a tricky subject to bring up in a city that had been badly bombed and a country that had already been at war for three plus years. The argument had become quite rough when someone yelled out ..'REDCAPS'!!! and military bodies disappeared in all directions! We were banned from that area of Exeter from then on. lcm1
                    Very, very well played Icm1 .
                    I asked about a face to face altercation about WWII and you provide one that was about WWII DURING WWII. Priceless!
                    Bloody Yanks!
                    Overpaid
                    Over-sexed
                    and over here!

                    How's that long over-due award going, still waiting?

                    Reagrds
                    lodestar

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lcm1 View Post
                      Yes, I was with a group of mates in a Pub in Exeter early 44, also in that same bar was a group of American Service men. The beer was flowing and loud American voices were proclaiming to everyone within about 3 miles that they had to come over to win the war for us. Now despite the fact that there was a certain amount of truth in the comments, it was a tricky subject to bring up in a city that had been badly bombed and a country that had already been at war for three plus years. The argument had become quite rough when someone yelled out ..'REDCAPS'!!! and military bodies disappeared in all directions! We were banned from that area of Exeter from then on. lcm1
                      Kipling described an earnest discussion of military issues from an earlier perios

                      https://www.poetryloverspage.com/poe...ing/belts.html
                      Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                      Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MarkV View Post

                        Kipling described an earnest discussion of military issues from an earlier perios

                        https://www.poetryloverspage.com/poe...ing/belts.html
                        I knew that was gonna be "Belts." "Till half of them was Liffey mud, and half was tattered clo'es." That was how I learned that the river Liffey flows through Dublin. Though why an Irish regiment of infantry would be stationed in Dublin with a regiment of English cavalry was beyond me.
                        Will no one tell me what she sings?--
                        Perhaps the plaintive numbers flow
                        For old, unhappy, far-off things,
                        And battles long ago:
                        -William Wordsworth, "The Solitary Reaper"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Any time you are talking to a Russion
                          We hunt the hunters

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Desiree Clary View Post

                            I knew that was gonna be "Belts." "Till half of them was Liffey mud, and half was tattered clo'es." That was how I learned that the river Liffey flows through Dublin. Though why an Irish regiment of infantry would be stationed in Dublin with a regiment of English cavalry was beyond me.
                            Ireland before 1920 was fully integrated into the UK and was heavily involved in cavalry training for the British Army. The main centre for cavalry training was the Curragh Camp in County Kildare. As a result 'English; cavalry units could be found dotted around Ireland at any time (and Irish battalions could be found in England)

                            I can remember the lify in the 70s when it was so heavily polluted with sewage that in the summer it was justly celled the sniffy.
                            Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                            Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              My favourite quote about WW2 came for LT COL John "Mad Jack" Churchill DSO etc.

                              " If it wasn't for those damn Yanks we could have kept the war going another ten years "
                              "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                              Samuel Johnson.

                              Comment

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