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March/April 1945 Divisions - East compared to West

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  • March/April 1945 Divisions - East compared to West

    Hi guys,

    Does anyone know how many Western Allied Divisions the Germans were facing on one side, compared to Soviet & Satellite Divisions on the other, by March/April 1945?

    This question popped up during a recent conversation and I was unable to provide an immediate answer.


    Best regards,
    panther3485
    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

  • #2
    IIRC about 85 divisions under Ike in NWE, about 20-odd in the Med. under Alex/Wilson.


    Reckon on roughly 45,000 men per divisional 'slice'.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
      Hi guys,

      Does anyone know how many Western Allied Divisions the Germans were facing on one side, compared to Soviet & Satellite Divisions on the other, by March/April 1945?

      This question popped up during a recent conversation and I was unable to provide an immediate answer.


      Best regards,
      panther3485
      According to 'The Workd War Two Databook' by John Ellis the number of Western Allied divisions in NWE was 88. Unfortunately he's unable to give a figure for the East. Overy ('Russia's War) gives a figure of six million Red Army soldiers being in the field as the January 1945 offensive began. Comparing divisional numbers is awkward because of the very different structures of the forces deployed in the West vis-a-vis the East.
      Signing out.

      Comment


      • #4
        OK guys, thanks for the replies so far. To put the question another way then, in your best estimation, what was the approximate balance of forces on the Allied side, East and West, by that date? Was it anywhere near equal by then, or was the greater weight still very much to the East? (Not counting air forces - land forces only.)
        "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
        Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

        Comment


        • #5
          Bearing in mind that the US forces had a far greater proportion of non-combatant troops than any of their allies one would get a very rough balance of 3:2 in favour of the East, something that would increase if we only included 'teeth'.
          Signing out.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Full Monty View Post
            Bearing in mind that the US forces had a far greater proportion of non-combatant troops than any of their allies one would get a very rough balance of 3:2 in favour of the East,
            Source?

            something that would increase if we only included 'teeth'.
            And ignore that some 'teeth' are sharper than others.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Gooner View Post
              Source?
              Ellis - 'Brute Force' (amongst others)

              And ignore that some 'teeth' are sharper than others.
              I thought you didn't like such 'indefinables'.
              Signing out.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Full Monty View Post
                Ellis - 'Brute Force' (amongst others)
                Bin it. The UK and the US had very similar teeth to tail ratio - both averaged about 45K men per division in the field, on the continent that is.

                I thought you didn't like such 'indefinables'.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The Red Army had in the Operational Army (those on the Eastern Front) and in Stavka Reserves the following division-sized or division title formations:
                  (number in parenthese in Stavka Reserves) as of 1 March 1945:

                  459 Rifle Divisions (+3)
                  9 Airborne Divisions
                  21 Cavalry Divisions
                  35 Artillery Divisions (+2)
                  5 Rocket Artillery Divisions
                  87 AAA Divisions (+3)
                  22 Tank Corps
                  12 Mechanized Corps (+1)
                  162 Aviation Divisions (+8)
                  10 NKVD Divisions

                  These numbers do not included those assigned to the Military Districts nor those assigned in the Far East.

                  konev

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Glantz did a paper in 2001 that said that in April 1945, the Germans fielded 1.9million men against the 6.5 million Red Army in the East, while 4 million Allies in the West faced under 1 million Germans.

                    I was unable to upload the PDF paper, but it's called "The Soviet-German War 1941-1945: Myths and Realities: A Survey," given at Clemson Univ. in October 2001. I believe you can still get it on the internet.
                    "There are only two professions in the world in which the amateur excels the professional. One, military strategy, and, two, prostitution."
                    -- Maj. Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower

                    (Avatar: Commodore Edwin Ward Moore, Republic of Texas Navy)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                      Bin it. The UK and the US had very similar teeth to tail ratio - both averaged about 45K men per division in the field, on the continent that is.
                      Well, the official ToE of the infantry divisions shows the UK division with about 4,000 extra men over the US equivalent. This would suggest that the US 'tail' was larger than their British counterparts.

                      You shouldn't be, it can't be measured.
                      Signing out.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jon Jordan View Post
                        Glantz did a paper in 2001 that said that in April 1945, the Germans fielded 1.9million men against the 6.5 million Red Army in the East, while 4 million Allies in the West faced under 1 million Germans.
                        That would tally with Overy in a very rough manner.
                        Signing out.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Full Monty View Post
                          Well, the official ToE of the infantry divisions shows the UK division with about 4,000 extra men over the US equivalent. This would suggest that the US 'tail' was larger than their British counterparts.
                          Uh, which ToEs - the June 1944 ones? By Spring '45 there had been adjustments in the British ones notably a reduction in anti-aircraft guns and personnel.

                          This would suggest that the US 'tail' was larger than their British counterparts.
                          No, why would it? The US kept a greater part of their combat assets - independent tank, artillery and anti-tank battalions - out of their divisional org. and in pool. In practice though attachments would be pretty permanent.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jon Jordan View Post
                            Glantz did a paper in 2001 that said that in April 1945, the Germans fielded 1.9million men against the 6.5 million Red Army in the East, while 4 million Allies in the West faced under 1 million Germans.
                            What were the 6-7 million other German military personnel doing?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                              What were the 6-7 million other German military personnel doing?
                              In April 1945? Didn't know they had that many left.

                              If they knew what was good for them, I suppose, they were high-tailing it west.
                              "There are only two professions in the world in which the amateur excels the professional. One, military strategy, and, two, prostitution."
                              -- Maj. Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower

                              (Avatar: Commodore Edwin Ward Moore, Republic of Texas Navy)

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