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MacArthur and Teddy Roosevelt, Jr. MoH

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  • MacArthur and Teddy Roosevelt, Jr. MoH

    I was looking into LBJ's silver star and I ran across mention that Big Mac had one. A little more digging and I found that Teddy Roosevelt Jr. Also had one. The only time I ever heard of him was in the movie "The Longest Day"

    So, I am curious..........

    Did MacArthur and Theodore Roosevelt, Jr. deserve their WWII Medal of Honors or was this just politics?


  • #2
    Both political, although Teddy Jr deserved some form of recognition. Went ashore at Utah in a beanie and led from the front, died from a heart attack a few days later. Was it worthy of the MoH? Hard to say.

    As for MacArthur...I doubt anyone would question his personal courage, but him getting the MoH was a joke, yet another way of covering up the man's incompetence.
    Colonel Summers' widely quoted critique of US strategy in the Vietnam War is having a modest vogue...it is poor history, poor strategy, and poor Clausewitz to boot - Robet Komer, Survival, 27:2, p. 94.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Miss.Saigon View Post
      I was looking into LBJ's silver star and I ran across mention that Big Mac had one. A little more digging and I found that Teddy Roosevelt Jr. Also had one. The only time I ever heard of him was in the movie "The Longest Day"

      So, I am curious..........

      Did MacArthur and Theodore Roosevelt, Jr. deserve their WWII Medal of Honors or was this just politics?
      Teddy Jr. was arguably not that great of a leader, although he was very popular with his men. He also dropped dead of a heart attack not long after the D-Day Invasion. IIRC, General Bradley, in his memoirs was about to relieve him of his command.
      "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

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      • #4
        Not the first time Bradley had relieved Teddy, Jr. Bradley fired him and Terry Allen in Sicily. He was smart enough to get Patton to actually do the deed. Seems some of the 1st Infantry division had taken to a suggestion that they did not have to salute officers not in the 1st. Bradley expected salutes. Read about it in Rick Atkinson's new book.

        If Teddy had been a Private, he did not earn the MOH. Since he was a general and went in on the first wave of the invasion, I think it was earned.

        Pruitt
        Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

        Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

        by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Pruitt View Post

          If Teddy had been a Private, he did not earn the MOH. Since he was a general and went in on the first wave of the invasion, I think it was earned.
          Pruitt
          So the Standard should be different for officers than enlisted? Why do you think so?

          Apparently Patton exposed himself to fire a lot and he didn't get one. Patton said he would give his soul for one. If it was as simple as landing in the first wave to get one I think Patton would have arrived first at Omaha on a Jet Ski wearing blaze orange

          Gen. George Patton said he would give his soul for one. Lyndon Johnson and Harry Truman said they would rather have the medal than be president.

          By law, the Medal of Honor is awarded by the president only to those in the armed services who distinguish themselves "conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of (their lives) above and beyond the call of duty."

          "Above and beyond the call of duty" has a specific meaning. The medal is not awarded to those who act under orders, no matter how heroic their actions. In fact, according to Library of Congress defense expert David F. Burrelli, it must be "the type of deed which, if he had not done it, would not subject him to any justified criticism."
          I think LBJ was lying. He craved politics. His Silver Star was a tool to help him win elections. The MoH would have been just a better tool.
          Last edited by Miss Saigon; 24 Oct 07, 14:16.

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          • #6
            Isn't the Medal of Honor awarded by Congress? Hence the name the Congressional Medal Of Honor. Presidents may pin the medal on but they don't award it do they?
            Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by revans View Post
              Isn't the Medal of Honor awarded by Congress? Hence the name the Congressional Medal Of Honor. Presidents may pin the medal on but they don't award it do they?
              Give the man from Ohio a cigar. HE is correct once again.
              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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              • #8
                Missy,

                I was thinking that the higher the rank held, the less one had to do to earn one. Teddy, Jr was the son of a president and distant cousin of the president in office. He literally gave his life to inspire his men to greater effort. This kind of effort by a member of a "royal" family is sadly not in evidence today. Are there any presidential kin in uniform now?

                If MacArthur did not earn one in World War 1, he certainly did not earn one in World War 2.

                LBJ was a Congressman that took some time off from Congress to be seen in uniform. He was commissioned as Lieutenant Commander for no apparent reason and nominated himself for a medal. The only medal he should have been in contention for was maybe the Good Conduct medal, but I am not sure he was clear of a social disease while in uniform.

                Patton never did anything worth a MOH. I am not sure if he even won a Silver Star or DSC during WW 2.

                Pruitt
                Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                • #9
                  Nah, didn't he fly a combat mission out of Australia in a B-26, and on his return MacArthur promptly recommended him for the Silver Star?

                  (The crew of one bomber which didn't come back got nothing).

                  Doesn't your admiration for MacArthur just shoot up?
                  Colonel Summers' widely quoted critique of US strategy in the Vietnam War is having a modest vogue...it is poor history, poor strategy, and poor Clausewitz to boot - Robet Komer, Survival, 27:2, p. 94.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Mac did what?

                    Originally posted by thejester View Post
                    Nah, didn't he fly a combat mission out of Australia in a B-26, and on his return MacArthur promptly recommended him for the Silver Star?

                    (The crew of one bomber which didn't come back got nothing).

                    Doesn't your admiration for MacArthur just shoot up?
                    LBJ was a PASSENGER on a flight that saw no enemy. I was under the impression he got back to the US and started asking why he did not qualify for the medal. Since he was well known as going back into Congress, they gave him a medal. MacArthur had well developed political muscles.

                    Pruitt
                    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
                      Isn't the Medal of Honor awarded by Congress? Hence the name the Congressional Medal Of Honor. Presidents may pin the medal on but they don't award it do they?
                      Correct re awarded by the president in the name of Congress - but I thought it was just "Medal of Honor."
                      "There are only two professions in the world in which the amateur excels the professional. One, military strategy, and, two, prostitution."
                      -- Maj. Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower

                      (Avatar: Commodore Edwin Ward Moore, Republic of Texas Navy)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Pruitt View Post

                        Patton never did anything worth a MOH. I am not sure if he even won a Silver Star or DSC during WW 2.

                        Pruitt
                        He did get one or the other, for driving around Gela and calling down Navy fire on a road being used by the Hermann Goering panzers. Gen. John Lucas (of Anzio "fame"), who as Ike's spy at Seventh Army at the time, recommended him - I believe it was the DSC.

                        Patton's first DSC was more solid - for taking a Mauser bullet to the leg while leading a collection of stalled infantry during the first day of the Meuse-Argonne. He was a colonel then.

                        Bradley fired Terrible Terry Allen and TR Jr. because they wouldn't discipline the Big Red One. He particularly didn't like their riotous behavior after returning to Oran when the Tunisian campaign ended - his view was that Allen and Roosevelt were turning the 1st into a prima donna division that would not play well as a team during the larger campaign in Europe. (At that time, the 1st hadn't been tapped to go to Sicily yet.)
                        "There are only two professions in the world in which the amateur excels the professional. One, military strategy, and, two, prostitution."
                        -- Maj. Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower

                        (Avatar: Commodore Edwin Ward Moore, Republic of Texas Navy)

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jon Jordan View Post
                          Correct re awarded by the president in the name of Congress - but I thought it was just "Medal of Honor."
                          That might be what it's called now but I'm pretty sure that at one time Congressional was the first word of the award.

                          Does it still take the Congress to award it? I haven't done any MOH research in a long time.
                          Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
                            Isn't the Medal of Honor awarded by Congress? Hence the name the Congressional Medal Of Honor. Presidents may pin the medal on but they don't award it do they?
                            Congress authorized the president to award the medal in the name of congress. Originally it was only for enlisted men. At that time it was the only medal awarded; as a result the early awards were sometimes given for heroic acts that would later be awarded lesser medals.

                            I have posted a link to the official website.

                            http://www.cmohs.org/medal/medal_history.htm
                            "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

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                            • #15
                              Great link, John. Thanks for posting it.
                              Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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