Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Was France one of the victor in 45 in your opinion ?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Was France one of the victor in 45 in your opinion ?

    I would have a question, to know what people think about that.
    In 1940 France was completely defeated by the Germans, and the result was a surrender and the quasi disappearance of France of WW2. France was occupied, and was liberated in 44 by others, by the Anglo-Saxons. But yet France was one of the victors in 45 and win a sit a the UN Security Council.
    So do you think that France lost WW2 or win it ? Do you think that France didn’t play any role to defeat the Nazis or can be considered as one of the victor (or not) ? What is your opinion about that ? I mean not the “official” result but what you, you think about the role of France in the end of war.

    LaPalice.
    Monsieur de La Palice est mort
    Mort devant Pavie.
    Un quart d'heure avant sa mort
    Il était encore en vie...

  • #2
    Regardless of the stigma Vichy carries with it, I think from the very early years of the war and on, France redeemed herself by spilling blood in the common cause of victory.
    Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

    Comment


    • #3
      I would say so, the French underground certainly played a major role in Germany's defeat.

      Comment


      • #4
        Interesting thread. France has been considered as one of the victors of WWII, but I have to point that other countries had a similar contribution: Yugoslavia, Netherlands, Norway...

        I wouldn't say that France did not contribute to the allied victory, but certainly her work has been much more appreciated than other countries.
        Cual lidian bien, sobre dorado arzón
        Mio Cid Ruy Diaz, el buen lidiador;
        Minaya Alvar Fáñez, que en Zorita mandó;
        Martín Antolínez, el burgalés de pro...!

        Comment


        • #5
          I think that France was able to contribute more to it's own liberation due to the Free French forces that operated in the ETO after 1940. Without those forces contributing to the war it would have been much easier to dismiss the French presence at the end. I know that the Dutch certainly had substantial forces operating in SE Asia from Commonwealth bases too, but were not a major power to begin with. Hardest done by would have to be the Poles, a sizeable nation blitzed by the Germans and occupied, while very high quality free Polish forces fought throughout the war with the British, and then to be "liberated" by the Soviets.

          Comment


          • #6
            After 1940, France was a major-minor player on the Allied side. Her contibution to the ultimate Allied victory in Europe, while important, was far less than that of (in order) the Soviet Union, the United States and Great Britian.
            Kampfgruppe Vice Kommandir
            http://www.kampfgruppe.us

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Prester John
              I think that France was able to contribute more to it's own liberation due to the Free French forces that operated in the ETO after 1940. Without those forces contributing to the war it would have been much easier to dismiss the French presence at the end. I know that the Dutch certainly had substantial forces operating in SE Asia from Commonwealth bases too, but were not a major power to begin with. Hardest done by would have to be the Poles, a sizeable nation blitzed by the Germans and occupied, while very high quality free Polish forces fought throughout the war with the British, and then to be "liberated" by the Soviets.
              That's a good point. The Poles really got the rw end of the deal from both sides in WWII. The did eventually end up with some extra land, but that's no compensation for the sacrifice they endured.

              No one writes much about the Poles for some reason. The sacrifice of the Free French and others gets a lot more attention. Today, the Poles are evolving into a player on the world stage and I think a lot of countries are taking another look at them. The US has become very freindly with Poland and the plan is to move many of the military bases now located in Germany to Poland. Cheaper for Americans to operate there and good for the Polish economy too.
              Editor-in-Chief
              GameSquad.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Don Maddox
                That's a good point. The Poles really got the rw end of the deal from both sides in WWII. The did eventually end up with some extra land, but that's no compensation for the sacrifice they endured.

                No one writes much about the Poles for some reason. The sacrifice of the Free French and others gets a lot more attention. Today, the Poles are evolving into a player on the world stage and I think a lot of countries are taking another look at them. The US has become very freindly with Poland and the plan is to move many of the military bases now located in Germany to Poland. Cheaper for Americans to operate there and good for the Polish economy too.
                I think the Cold War was the reason of forgetting the eastern front by the westerners... An another price to pay...
                a brain cell

                Comment


                • #9
                  Neither Nazi Germany or the Communist Union were know for being open societies, or even places were the truth could be easily ascertained, much less confirmed. Tie these fact to bias of the western Allies to concentrate on the fronts in which they fought, and it's hardly surprising that not much is available about Poland in the West from the start of World War II through the end of the the Cold War.
                  Kampfgruppe Vice Kommandir
                  http://www.kampfgruppe.us

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think France's inclusion among the winners had everything to do with adding another anti-communist state into the UN Security Council and nothing to do with its contribution to the victory. While there were some brave French men and women who took part in the Resistance, in reality it was very small and mostly insignificant to the course of the war.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hello,

                      No. France is not the real victor. It took several Allies to liberate the rest of France from the German forces.

                      France may have contributed some of her guerrilla forces or hastily formed military units to the defeat of Nazi Germany, but in no way, can she be granted the status of a victor.

                      Before anybody accuses me of being a Francophobic, let me ask you this question:

                      Did France liberate herself all alone? Yes or no will do. Don't bother trying to give a long answer. Just answer a simple yes or no.

                      If given a "yes" answer, then you're really delusional; if given a "no" answer, well, at least, you acknowledge many Allied soldiers, especially the United States, had given their lives in the liberation of France. Thus, why should France deserve the status of a victor?

                      Dan
                      Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                      "Aim small, miss small."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Saying that France wasn't one of the victors in 1945 is a little like saying that Canada or Australia wasn't one of the victors. While the French contribution was in no way vital to the Allied victory, the overall contribution of the Free-French was significant and assisted the Allied victory.
                        Owner and operator, Armed Forces of the Asia Pacific
                        Forum administrator, www.orbat.com
                        Co-administrator, www.historic-battles.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          France did have a significant empire beyond it's own borders and was a significant post-war economic force because of that reason. Also the degree of sacrifice is also an issue. France sacrificed a lot compared to those countries that were not occupied, all for the privilege of providing the battlefield. If another option was available for the allied forces would they have even gone through France?

                          And while some Free French formations were hastily formed they were not some sort of militia, instead being the survivors of regular army navy and airforce formations. Other Free French forces were the Moroccan Zouave regiments, who I gather were as fearsome as the British Gurkha's. They fought along with Foreign Legion forces and other regular forces from the extended empire, so French forces were neither insubstantial or ineffective.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Was Great Britain a victor in WW2? No doubt they did more than their fair share to contribute to the victory, but when you consider they originally went to war to maintain a beneficial balance of power in Europe and to keep Poland sovereign, it ended up being a bit of a disaster.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cheetah772
                              Did France liberate herself all alone? Yes or no will do. Don't bother trying to give a long answer. Just answer a simple yes or no.

                              If given a "yes" answer, then you're really delusional; if given a "no" answer, well, at least, you acknowledge many Allied soldiers, especially the United States, had given their lives in the liberation of France. Thus, why should France deserve the status of a victor?
                              Hello,
                              The answer quite obviously is no, France did not liberate itself alone and nobody, even the most rabid francophile, could go against this plain and simple fact. That would be dishonest and insulting for all the Allied soldiers who fought and died on its soil.
                              But at the same time, France does rank among WWII victors. How come?

                              Because victory, in my opinion, cannot be limited to military victory. WWII victors were victors on a political ground. Military victory was a means to assert political preeminence and not an end in itself.
                              One of the reasons which allowed France to take rank among the victors and put its signature on the surrender instrument of the Third Reich was De Gaulle, a political character more than a mlitary leader. All the Free-french and resistance contributions to Allied military victory would not have prevented France from losing its rank altogether had it not be for De Gaulle. He played his cards well and from the depths of the May 40 disaster, managed to muster enough official support from the British (from the very beginning) and the U.S. (more reluctantly and later) to assert the position of France as one of the major Allies, from a political point of view.

                              Putting aside the political factor and chosing the military status as only criterium of explanation cannot but lead to a unproductive paradox : a country at first defeated, then contributing on a measured scale to Allied military victory, but retaining the status and privileges of a full-blood victor (U.N. security council seat, occupation zone in Germany). This just makes no sense until you throw in other factors.

                              My two cents.

                              Nemo

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              • Karri
                                Prawn heads
                                by Karri
                                How do you cook them? How do you eat them?

                                So far I've always just twisted them off, and discarded it along with the shells and such, only...
                                Yesterday, 11:40
                              • Jose50
                                Thoughts on the US abandoning NATO
                                by Jose50
                                Now may be a good time for the NATO countries to start beefing up their materiel, personnel and alliances. There is a decided wave here in the US that...
                                Yesterday, 08:41
                              • Von Richter
                                Sagittarius Rising...
                                by Von Richter
                                Just having a re-read of this book after it's stood for donkey's years on the bookshelf. Once again, within the first couple of pages, I'm transported...
                                Yesterday, 01:19
                              Working...
                              X