Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Operation Market-Garden

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Operation Market-Garden

    Operation Market-Garden has always struck my fancy, here was an Operation that was bold in it's concept if not in it's execution. After the Allied breakout from the Normandy beacheads the German army seemed to fold like a house of cards. The Germans were retreating faster than the Allies could advance, the Allies were racing across France and Belgum trying to catch up with the retreating Germans. The Allies reached Antwerp when overly streatched supply lines finally caught up to them, they had to stop. Monty came up with a bold plan to take advantage of the disorganized Germans, it was Market-Garden, Eisenhower approved it because he wanted to make a bold stroke against the Germans before logistic problems stopped his army altogether. The first problem of course is that Eisenhower stopped just short of the port of Antwep and allowed the 9th & 10th SS Panzer divisions to escape to the Arnhiem area for rest and refit. Had Eisenhower rounded the corner he probibly would have destroyed these two German divisions and would have been done with them once and for all, but of course, he didn't. With these two divisions in the Arnhiem area they played a major role in the defeat of Monty's grand plan. The question is this, was there anyway that the Allies could have pulled this off of was it doomed from the start?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Priest
    The first problem of course is that Eisenhower stopped just short of the port of Antwep and allowed the 9th & 10th SS Panzer divisions to escape to the Arnhiem area for rest and refit. Had Eisenhower rounded the corner he probibly would have destroyed these two German divisions and would have been done with them once and for all, but of course, he didn't. With these two divisions in the Arnhiem area they played a major role in the defeat of Monty's grand plan. The question is this, was there anyway that the Allies could have pulled this off of was it doomed from the start?
    Hmmm.
    British 11th Armd Div captured Antwerp, with locks intact on sept 4 before they halted their advance.
    Not sure what you mean by Ike rounding the corner. I'm assuming a move into the Beveland Peninsula & Walcheren to free up the approaches to Antwerp; but the 9th & 10th SS Pz Divs were never deployed there.

    http://www.wssob.com/009divhoh.html


    The almost criminal flaw in dropping 1st Brit Abn ~5 miles from their objectives doomed the plan from the start. The Polish Bde's original drop zones were located immediately south of the Arnhem Highway bridge; if the Brits would have been dropped in that location on day 1, the Pz Divs north of Arnhem would have had much greater difficulty in interfering with the capture of the Nijmegen bridge.
    Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

    Comment


    • #3
      Most of what I posted came from the Cornelius Ryan book "A Bridge Too Far" might have been mistaken but I was under the impression that these two divisions were in the Antwerp area and escaped due to Allied logistics problems. What I'm really interested in is could have the Allies have pulled this operation off given the fact that these two divisions were in the Arnhiem area.

      Comment


      • #4
        Well, as I said in my first post, I don't think there was any possibility of success with the operation as it was carried out.

        Consider that the 1st Brit Abn had to fight through ~5 miles of mixed urban terrain to even get to their objective; a difficult prospect at the best of times. With 2 Pz Divs in the area(much reduced in strength mind you), the chances of even reaching the bridge, as amply demonstated in 1944, were almost impossible.

        With a Day 1 landing south of the Arnhem bridge, the Brits would have immediately seized the objective in greater strength than was historically the case and would have had the time to prepare defensive positions in the built up areas north of the Rhine. As the stand of Frost's Btl at the Arnhem bridge shows, the Germans would have had a difficult time indeed in ousting the bulk of 1st Abn from the northern approachs to the bridge.

        Many will say that severe casualties may have been incurred by the Brits landing in the soft polder land south of the bridge, but they would have been ON the objective instead of stuck in Oosterbeek ~ 5miles to the west.This would have gained the added benefit of allowing the 82nd US Abn to seize the Nijmegen bridge earlier and at a much lower cost; allowing a link up with XXX Corps that much sooner.
        Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks Tigersqn, I was womdering that even if everything went as smooth as clockwork. That even if the British 1st Airbourne had been dropped where they were supposed to have been. Even if the Allied High Command had taken seriously the photographic evidence and rhe reports from the underground that there were two panzer divisions sitting in the operational area. Was Monty's plan doable or was it just a mite to ambitious?

          Comment


          • #6
            cornelius ryan wrote that the big mistake was letting the 15th army slip away. eventually something like 60.000men escaped iirc to make life difficult for the para's... i think they could have pulled it off if the brits used other dropzones. and if even if the 15th army wouldnt have escaped, there where still plenty of bridges to be blown.
            French Soldier: You don't frighten us, English pig dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called "Arthur King," you and all your silly English K-nig-hts.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by screamer
              cornelius ryan wrote that the big mistake was letting the 15th army slip away.
              IMO, failure to clear the approaches to Antwerp was probably the Western Allies biggest mistake of the war and lengthened the war by several months.
              Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tigersqn
                IMO, failure to clear the approaches to Antwerp was probably the Western Allies biggest mistake of the war and lengthened the war by several months.
                Agree. A strategic blunder if ever there was one.

                If you want to game out the "what-ifs" of Market Garden check out our new game Highway to the Reich
                Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
                www.panthergames.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Or maybe give the "Westwall" Quad game a try!

                  You may even want to acquire a copy of the SPI "Westwall" Quad game of "Arnhem" and try the 'Optional Drop Zones' Scenario of that. I'm not certain if "Hexwar".com has it in their initial offering of online games, but they could be working on this sometime in the near future. They've got quite a few of them, mostly from WW-2, but there's even a "Napoleonic" version of the *FREE* "Waterloo" SPI Game that is available for playing.

                  Comment

                  Latest Topics

                  Collapse

                  Working...
                  X