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What is the most overlooked, undervalued, underestimated aspect of WWII?

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  • Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
    Just a gentle reminder to get back on topic, folks.
    ACG Staff
    I know I have taken part but it does make you wonder how the hell some of these topics get so altered!
    lcm1
    'By Horse by Tram'.


    I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
    " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

    Comment


    • Originally posted by lcm1 View Post
      I know I have taken part but it does make you wonder how the hell some of these topics get so altered!
      lcm1
      Heh, I believe it is technically known as "Thread Sway," and is familiar in RL to anybody who has taken part in a lively conversation.

      Erm, I mean, I think that the amount of supplies available to the combat soldier is underappreciated. I have heard Germans commenting bitterly on the amount of supplies required for each USA combat infantryman.
      Will no one tell me what she sings?--
      Perhaps the plaintive numbers flow
      For old, unhappy, far-off things,
      And battles long ago:
      -William Wordsworth, "The Solitary Reaper"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by lodestar View Post
        Thanks for posting that.
        It reminds me of an amazing 'true' anecdote my father told me about his stint ‘waiting for the balloon to go up’ (or whatever the French equivalent of the day was!) during the ‘Phony War of 1939/40.

        I believe this ‘probably’ happened and my ole man wasn’t just seeing how gullible I was when it came to trusting what he said!

        He said (well okay…. ‘claimed’) that one day when they were all bored out of their minds, the battalion (or maybe his company) got a visit from the ranking medical officer accompanied by a couple of ‘medical scientists’.

        These guys (who my dad said looked pretty bored as well) addressed the unit and said they were gathering info on the actual number of full on cigarette and cigar smokers who contracted lung-cancer and then said:
        “Because of course, you poor benighted schmucks (or a term to that effect), smoking CAUSES lung cancer. So you people can think of yourselves as guinea pigs doing your bit for science.”

        My father swore they did not say “may cause lung cancer” or “we are try to see if there is a link between smoking and lung cancer” they said it ‘causes lung cancer’.

        Unit commander started to say something about not being sure why the army had time to do this weird stuff during a war, but was cut short by one of the ‘scientists’ who gave him a look (as only the French ‘professional class can do) which implied ‘you may exist my dear fellow but that does not mean what you think could ever matter.’

        Anyway they took some details from the ‘schmucks’ and then left.
        Amazing thing was one of them smoked cheroots the whole time he was there!

        The ‘schmucks’ never heard anything more due to errr…ummm…. certain developments they were involved in a few months later involving a German invasion, a military disaster and a errr…ummm certain port on the northern French coast err what was the name of that place? Oh yeah ‘Dunkirk’. Yeah that was it.

        This was France 1939 or 1940. An official visit it would appear, by medical professionals, sanctioned by the French military.
        Strangest ‘war story’ my dad ever told.

        I suspect that the role of smoking in health issues was probably under closer scrutiny a lot earlier than is normally recognised.

        That is if his little tale was true.
        God he could be a confounding old cote sometimes.

        Regards
        lodestar
        Lodestar, what in the @#$%&*! does this have to do with the subject? Or any wartime subject, for that matter?


        Mountain Man suspects that Lodestar has succumbed to "war weenie syndrome", in which war stories take on a strange life of their own and show up in inappropriate places and times.

        One wonders if lodestar knows the difference between a fairy tale and a war story: war story: when I was in the (branch of service here), and fairy tale: "once upon a time"...


        It might be worthwhile to recall at this point that the often overlooked but absolutely vital Higgins Boat used in the Allied amphibious assaults was made primarily from plywood. Wood is far more useful and durable in a lot of applications that we never think about because we don't notice it.


        The Mosquito was arguably one of the finest, fastest, most maneuverable and non-radar-reflective fighter-bombers of WWII, plywood and all, and if you happened to have to ditch, well...it floated!
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Desiree Clary View Post
          Heh, I believe it is technically known as "Thread Sway," and is familiar in RL to anybody who has taken part in a lively conversation.

          Erm, I mean, I think that the amount of supplies available to the combat soldier is underappreciated. I have heard Germans commenting bitterly on the amount of supplies required for each USA combat infantryman.
          I think the term is thread creep, although possibly this may or may not apply to some posters

          At the Saturday school on my current MA course today several references were made to German soldiers at the end of the Western campaign in 1940 commenting adversely on the large piles of unused German supplies. This led to German production being diverted away from war material to consumer products which in turn led to German forces in late 1941 being desperately under supplied
          Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
          Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

          Comment


          • Originally posted by MarkV View Post
            I think the term is thread creep, although possibly this may or may not apply to some posters

            At the Saturday school on my current MA course today several references were made to German soldiers at the end of the Western campaign in 1940 commenting adversely on the large piles of unused German supplies. This led to German production being diverted away from war material to consumer products which in turn led to German forces in late 1941 being desperately under supplied
            If that was the situation in 1941 you can guess what it was like in 1944, they had there immediate supplies and then virtually nothing! lcm1
            'By Horse by Tram'.


            I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
            " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by MarkV View Post

              At the Saturday school on my current MA course today several references were made to German soldiers at the end of the Western campaign in 1940 commenting adversely on the large piles of unused German supplies. This led to German production being diverted away from war material to consumer products which in turn led to German forces in late 1941 being desperately under supplied
              I wonder why they complained? Except for rations the rest of the supplies should be non-perishable. Or were they saying that a lot of food was wasted?
              Eagles may fly; but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines!

              "I'm not expendable; I'm not stupid and I'm not going." - Kerr Avon, Blake's 7

              Comment


              • Originally posted by RichardS View Post
                I wonder why they complained? Except for rations the rest of the supplies should be non-perishable. Or were they saying that a lot of food was wasted?
                A lot of the supplies were ammo etc and the complaints appear to have been on the grounds of wasted effort in transporting and building up the supply dumps. And don't forget that in late 1940 a lot of Germans thought that the war was as good as over, Britain would have to do a deal and all those munitions were a waste.
                Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                Comment


                • Smoking in WWII

                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  Lodestar, what in the @#$%&*! does this have to do with the subject? Or any wartime subject, for that matter?


                  Mountain Man suspects that Lodestar has succumbed to "war weenie syndrome", in which war stories take on a strange life of their own and show up in inappropriate places and times.

                  One wonders if lodestar knows the difference between a fairy tale and a war story: war story: when I was in the (branch of service here), and fairy tale: "once upon a time"...
                  [/FONT]
                  Oh calm down!
                  As several posters have pointed out in recent posts, threads 'drift' all the time.I made it perfectly clear in the post that I had my suspicions about his story's veracity.


                  I still don't see why he would have just made it all up.

                  He could spin a yarn with the best of 'em But still????

                  Having to post from the local library again As can't get through on my own PC yet again.
                  Regards
                  lodestar

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Lodestar, what in the @#$%&*! does this have to do with the subject? Or any wartime subject, for that matter?


                    Mountain Man suspects that Lodestar has succumbed to "war weenie syndrome", in which war stories take on a strange life of their own and show up in inappropriate places and times.

                    One wonders if lodestar knows the difference between a fairy tale and a war story: war story: when I was in the (branch of service here), and fairy tale: "once upon a time"...


                    It might be worthwhile to recall at this point that the often overlooked but absolutely vital Higgins Boat used in the Allied amphibious assaults was made primarily from plywood. Wood is far more useful and durable in a lot of applications that we never think about because we don't notice it.


                    The Mosquito was arguably one of the finest, fastest, most maneuverable and non-radar-reflective fighter-bombers of WWII, plywood and all, and if you happened to have to ditch, well...it floated!
                    Yes, known as the LCA, a skeleton of angle iron filled in with ply wood. Two V8 engines, quite fast and fairly quiet BUT extremely vulnerable to gunfire. there was a runway either side used by the crew when loaded and formed a 'shelter' about 18inches or so wide over the heads of some of the troops and was used as such. this footpath was lightweight metal but certainly no defence in reality. Not being smart but I have served on most of the smaller landing craft of that time and cannot resist talking about them. lcm1
                    'By Horse by Tram'.


                    I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
                    " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

                    Comment


                    • I'd like to nominate Marc Mitscher's decision to turn on his carriers lights so his returning aircrews, who were running extremely low on fuel and in the dark, could find a safe haven to land on. That saved many, many lives.
                      Eagles may fly; but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines!

                      "I'm not expendable; I'm not stupid and I'm not going." - Kerr Avon, Blake's 7

                      Comment


                      • One thing that is perhaps overlooked is just how dangerous flying
                        was, even without combat.

                        From "Unbroken" by Laura Hillenbrand:

                        In the AAF there was 52,000 KIA. There were 51,000 non-combat
                        deaths. In the PTO in 1943, for every plane lost in combat, there
                        were about 6 lost in accidents. Later combat took a bigger toll,
                        but it never overtook non-combat losses.

                        Even the official KIA toll might underestimate the deadliness of
                        non-combat flying. According to the book, the AAF Surgeon General
                        suggested that 70% of those listed as KIA in the 15th AF from
                        11/1/43 to 5/25/45 died in operational aircraft accidents, not
                        enemy action.
                        "The good old hockey game is the best game you can name
                        and the best game you can name is the good old hockey game"

                        - Stompin' Tom Connors - The Hockey Song

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by HMan View Post
                          One thing that is perhaps overlooked is just how dangerous flying was, even without combat.
                          Good point. I remember reading how for bomber formations that forming up after takeoff was very dangerous and there was many, many collisions during that time. Even with the introduction of special formup planes it was still dangerous esp. if the weather was tricky.
                          Eagles may fly; but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines!

                          "I'm not expendable; I'm not stupid and I'm not going." - Kerr Avon, Blake's 7

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by RichardS View Post
                            I'd like to nominate Marc Mitscher's decision to turn on his carriers lights so his returning aircrews, who were running extremely low on fuel and in the dark, could find a safe haven to land on. That saved many, many lives.
                            HMS Illustrious did the same after the attack on Taranto, 11/12 November, 1940.

                            When the first wave was detected on her radar, returning just after 0110, her landing lights were switched on and she launched flame floats, whilst flashing 's' from small lights on her starboard side and 'p' from lights to port.

                            All returning aircraft landed on successfully, although L4K collided with the tail of an aircraft which had landed before her.

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                            • Aspect?

                              Originally posted by RichardS View Post
                              I'd like to nominate Marc Mitscher's decision to turn on his carriers lights so his returning aircrews, who were running extremely low on fuel and in the dark, could find a safe haven to land on. That saved many, many lives.
                              Well an interesting choice.
                              But really just a one-off decision rather than a main 'aspect' which is what I'm interested in.
                              Still unable to Post from home!

                              Regards
                              lodestar

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by lodestar View Post
                                Well an interesting choice.
                                But really just a one-off decision rather than a main 'aspect' which is what I'm interested in.
                                Still unable to Post from home!

                                Regards
                                lodestar
                                Did you reset your router?
                                Credo quia absurdum.


                                Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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