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What is the most overlooked, undervalued, underestimated aspect of WWII?

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  • Originally posted by At ease View Post
    You start getting returns as soon as your more accurately placed load actually destroys a valuable target i.e. a factory building or militarily valuable facility, rather than just a workers house, and as soon as a crew(now 2 only rather than 7) makes it home that would otherwise be lost via being shot down.

    The dividends would accrue rapidly.

    It is not a difficult concept to grasp, or so I would have thought.
    Have you ever tried NOT talking down to a person when you answer? lcm1
    'By Horse by Tram'.


    I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
    " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

    Comment


    • Originally posted by lcm1 View Post
      Have you ever tried NOT talking down to a person when you answer? lcm1
      Yes I have Ken.

      To you for example, here and previously.

      But if someone deserves a "ticking off" for a factual reason I will give it.

      Just as I deserve to be on the receiving end if I don't get my facts straight.

      I can't be more even handed than that.

      There is far too much "pulling punches" and PC nonsense these days.

      It leads to all sorts of errors and miscalculation.

      Better to "call a spade, a spade".
      Last edited by At ease; 02 Apr 18, 20:50.
      "It's like shooting rats in a barrel."
      "You'll be in a barrel if you don't watch out for the fighters!"

      "Talking about airplanes is a very pleasant mental disease."
      — Sergei(son of Igor) Sikorsky, 'AOPA Pilot' magazine February 2003.

      Comment


      • Let’s get back on topic please or at the very least get back to discussing anything WW2 related. Future off topic posts will be removed.
        Thank you
        ACG Staff

        Comment


        • Originally posted by At ease View Post
          Yes I have Ken.

          To you for example, here and previously.

          But if someone deserves a "ticking off" for a factual reason I will give it.

          Just as I deserve to be on the receiving end if I don't get my facts straight.

          I can't be more even handed than that.

          There is far too much "pulling punches" and PC nonsense these days.

          It leads to all sorts of errors and miscalculation.

          Better to "call a spade, a spade".
          Cannot do anything else but agree with you, anyway it was not even my business, Cheers, lcm1
          'By Horse by Tram'.


          I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
          " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

          Comment


          • Originally posted by CarpeDiem View Post
            Let’s get back on topic please or at the very least get back to discussing anything WW2 related. Future off topic posts will be removed.
            Thank you
            ACG Staff
            As you know CD, I do not pick fights, I thought I was making a point. But let dogs lie. lcm1
            'By Horse by Tram'.


            I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
            " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

            Comment


            • The soviet Spies in WWII

              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

              That spies in the US got sufficient information on the A-bomb to the Soviets for them to make one (along with captured German information) postwar does nothing to win WW 2.

              Soviet spies in Britain and the US did nothing particularly valuable to contribute to WW 2 victory. They changed no outcomes of major campaigns, they contributed little to battlefield outcomes, if anything.
              Of course not. How were they going to?
              'Lucy' was about getting invaluable info directly from the highest level of German Command.

              At that level the contribution to winning te war for the USSR was huge.

              The Soviet spies in the UK/US, among another things, were gathering intel about the A- bomb, supposedly the greatest secret of the war, which they did brilliantly.

              The reality that they worked for a paranoid, psychopathic maniac like Stalin and a looney cause does not lessen their professional achievement as spies.

              P.S Still just posting from my local library and haven't tried for a while to use my on PC to get onto this forum

              Regards
              lodestar

              Comment


              • Originally posted by lodestar View Post
                Of course not. How were they going to?
                'Lucy' was about getting invaluable info directly from the highest level of German Command.

                At that level the contribution to winning te war for the USSR was huge.

                The Soviet spies in the UK/US, among another things, were gathering intel about the A- bomb, supposedly the greatest secret of the war, which they did brilliantly.

                The reality that they worked for a paranoid, psychopathic maniac like Stalin and a looney cause does not lessen their professional achievement as spies.

                P.S Still just posting from my local library and haven't tried for a while to use my on PC to get onto this forum

                Regards
                lodestar
                The importance of Lucy is mostly a myth .

                The same for the Soviet spies in the UK/US : even without the Rosenbergs, the Soviets would have the A bomb .

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                  The importance of Lucy is mostly a myth .

                  The same for the Soviet spies in the UK/US : even without the Rosenbergs, the Soviets would have the A bomb .
                  Supporting evidence please
                  Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                  Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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                  • See : "Werther hat nie gelebt" (in Der Spiegel from 1972,available on the net ) : ONE example of the seriousness of the Lucy informations: 10 days before the start of Citadel, Lucy reported that Citadel was cancelled .

                    BTW : Sorge was not better .

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                      The USSR should always be remembered for its heroics during WW2, including in any WW2 documentaries shown in the USA or UK. The big 3 alliance is very very important to keep in mind,

                      REALLY, never forget.

                      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                        The Allies had an oil plan as early as 1940 when Operation Pike was established to bomb the Soviet oil facilities at Baku cutting off supplies to Germany. It got as far as two RAF photo recce aircraft flying over Baku and airfields being planned in Northern Iraq and Cyprus. It was called off for practical and political reasons.

                        Germany did not put all its eggs in one basket as far as transporting oil was concerned and a number of different routes and means of transport were used. Oil storage was dispersed with lots of small well concealed tanks and bunkers. It wasn't until Allied fighter bombers could range over Germany that her oil assets could really effectively be destroyed.
                        If Baku was out, this did not mean that Germany would not receive oil from the SU

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                          You mean selling us fuel on which a healthy profit was made.
                          In 1940, most oil that arrived in Britain came from British oil companies, later the situation changed .

                          While before the war most oil for Britain arrived from the Western Hemisphere (61,9 % in 1935),this came mostly from outside the US (in 1937 39 % from Venezuela ) where it could be bought from British companies and with British money : £.

                          Half of British aviation oil came from the Dutch West Indies .

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by lodestar View Post
                            What is the most overlooked, undervalued, underestimated aspect of WWII?

                            I’m developing this as a companion and contrast piece to my earlier thread-starter:
                            What are WWII’s most over-used and overwrought clichés?
                            It behoves me to do so …....ergo it is done.
                            It would amuse me to do so ……ergo it is done
                            As it has been said by lodestar. Let it be as lodestar has said.

                            Everyone okay with that?
                            Thought so.

                            If push came to shove there’s not a man or woman on this Forum or any other who would even contemplate defying my will.
                            The path to enlightenment is always ‘the way of lodestar.
                            Blah, blah blah …God I’ve become a self-parodying, repetitive bore.
                            Sorry about that. It happens to best of us.
                            Guess that’s why happened to me.

                            But enough of prologue.

                            Seriously what I’m interested in is what posters consider the wars most undervalued, little-known/publicised and or unappreciated aspect of WWII.
                            By ‘aspect’ I’d like people to put forward their ideas for categories such as: campaigns, weapons, personalities, developments, social and national movements, strategies, units etc.

                            My top picks in some categories:
                            Campaigns: . US Submarine war against Japan’s Merchant Fleet and her Empire’s shipping lanes.
                            What the U-boats failed to achieve in the Atlantic, the US ‘Silent Service achieved and then some in the Pacific. Crippling Japan’s capacity to supply it's Pacific garrisons and effectively destroying its merchant Navy.
                            . Orde Wingate’s controversial Chindit ‘behind the lines’ operations in Burma.
                            . Tito’s brilliant and eventually triumphant Partisan war against the Axis occupying forces (in terms of Axis divisions eventually engaged it dwarfed for example, the North African campaign).

                            Developments: . Usung advances in medicine, science and technology

                            Historical movements: . The basic advancement of liberal ideals and subsequent decline in overt racism, anti-Semitism and straight up, moron-level ‘My Country Right or Wrong’ nationalistic pride.
                            . Spread of Communism for several decades after the war.

                            Decision: No contest. The most crucial ‘allied’ side decision made in WWII was made by Stalin (his army actually WAS fighting in 1941-43 not planning on and deciding what to do) to simply stay in Moscow come what may in mid-October 1941 as the panzers crept closer.

                            Weapon: . V2 Long-Range guided ballistic missile (please don’t tell me the allies were ‘developing’ something similar like that nit-picking argument recently about WWII jets)

                            Military unit: .Tito’s Partisans (again), defenders of Leningrad, Brandenburgers, German attack force that took Fort Eben-Emael

                            Intelligence war: . Once again no contest, Lucy Spy ring (sorry Enigma and Ultra fan boys).

                            Personality: . Tito (again - hey I see a lodestar thematic developing here, this is good stuff)

                            Get the idea?

                            Anyway, I’m sure posters will have their own suggestions and even extra categories (pigeon-hole) they may want to share.
                            However please, nothing which you think can’t be pigeon-holed. I detest pretensions of individuality.

                            Please keep in mind I’m looking for the: unsung, the undervalued, the under-recognised and the overlooked etc - no picking something completely mainstream and trying to pretend it has been much underestimated. (I came close with the V2 choice but hey, it’s my thread so I get some leeway).

                            Looking forward to your input.

                            Regards lodestar
                            Answer to the OP : the basics, lost by overgrowing legends .

                            Germany never had any chance to win a war against Britain and France, even without the intervention of the SU .

                            And if,miraculously,it won, it had no possibility to conserve its conquests .

                            NO country was strong enough to dominate Europe .

                            Germany's dream would be an illusion, as was the dream of Napoleon ,......

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                            • Originally posted by HMan View Post
                              Bottom line is that I think it might have been more effective to have
                              a larger Mosquito force. Larger #s of Allied aircraft would confuse
                              German defenses, with more diversions, small groups dropping window
                              to emulate large forces, etc.
                              There was a alt time lines thread from a few years ago that debated this very point.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by AdrianE View Post
                                There was a alt time lines thread from a few years ago that debated this very point.
                                I don't recall the discussion but think one of the major concerns would be the construction of the Mosquito being wood. Didn't they get former piano makers etc to construct it. Not sure how easy it would be to get facilities used to constructing metal skin a/c to ramp up to build wooden ones.

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