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What is the most overlooked, undervalued, underestimated aspect of WWII?

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  • The peoples who enabled the Escape Lines, through which many Allied airmen were able to travel via safe houses and eventually back to England or Allied lines to live and fight again.

    Sources differ, but several works I have on the subject speak of around 2,000-2,500 Allied airmen were saved from capture after being shot down, and that an average of 5 people lost their lives for every airman saved.

    I do not believe those people ever received the thanks or recognition they were due. My grandfather was one of them, and it led to him and his family being hunted by the Gestapo. He survived and was lucky, but his 4 other group members were not.

    About 10 years ago, I participated in a fundraiser to commission a small monument or plaque dedicated to the Escape Lines and the sacrifices made by those people. It was intended for the memorial gardens at the WPAFM in Dayton Ohio. A design was chosen though I cannot remember which. The proposal was submitted but nothing heard of it since. We interpreted the non-response as a "No".
    You'll live, only the best get killed.

    -General Charles de Gaulle

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    • Originally posted by asterix View Post
      The peoples who enabled the Escape Lines, through which many Allied airmen were able to travel via safe houses and eventually back to England or Allied lines to live and fight again.

      Sources differ, but several works I have on the subject speak of around 2,000-2,500 Allied airmen were saved from capture after being shot down, and that an average of 5 people lost their lives for every airman saved.

      I do not believe those people ever received the thanks or recognition they were due. My grandfather was one of them, and it led to him and his family being hunted by the Gestapo. He survived and was lucky, but his 4 other group members were not.

      About 10 years ago, I participated in a fundraiser to commission a small monument or plaque dedicated to the Escape Lines and the sacrifices made by those people. It was intended for the memorial gardens at the WPAFM in Dayton Ohio. A design was chosen though I cannot remember which. The proposal was submitted but nothing heard of it since. We interpreted the non-response as a "No".
      Supported by British MI9 who were often in conflict with MI6 who sometimes had different priorities and thought that these activities could draw unwonted attention to the operation of their agents. In Italy and the Balkans MI9 even ran airlifts to bring out POWs who had taken refuge with Partisans.

      The Belgian escape lines actually had their origins in WW1 when lines were established to get British soldiers (and airman), trapped when Germany over ran the country, out.
      Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
      Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

      Comment


      • Anyone whom supports the Big 3 or the allied cause, please enjoy the following video. I urge anyone who supports freedom to watch from the 25:15 mark which shows how Americans felt on Dec 6 1941 and the following day, Dec 7th 1941.The following video proves how a strong middle class is needed to keep a country and its allies strong and motivated. This is a highly inspiring video for those who support freedom and what is good and right. The spirit of the following video reminds of the teachings of King Arthur, Robin Hood and Richard I of England,




        https://youtu.be/r8zmUidCf0Q?t=25m10s
        Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM

        Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

        George S Patton

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        • When is the last time a US officer could enjoy a cigarette while having lunch with other service members, 28:00 mark of the following video shows the everyday Americans that made up the US navy during WW2,


          Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM

          Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

          George S Patton

          Comment


          • Originally posted by CarpeDiem View Post
            Perhaps take the time to read the information I posted. Or look at some modern studies on the bombing campaign like the one DC just recommended above. This seems to be another case ,a la Tooze, of a lot of opinion on a subject and not much research or sources to back up said opinion.
            Good luck to any future students you may have is all I can say if this is an example of your teaching style and lesson planning .
            I think that a lot of people think that because of the determination of the Brits and the bombing, that the Germans were the same. Well maybe they were at first but not with the overwhelming eventuality, they had all of the things of life cut off including food and water. I saw them at the bitter end and nothing mattered except what we could provide them with. Hamburg!! we all know what happened to that city, well the population were like the living dead, I will say no more except that the bombing achieved what it set out to do, most Definitely! Anyway, the German bombing of the UK bore no comparison to what they received in return, so cannot be used at all. lcm1
            Last edited by lcm1; 01 Mar 18, 03:30.
            'By Horse by Tram'.


            I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
            " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
              When is the last time a US officer could enjoy a cigarette while having lunch with other service members, 28:00 mark of the following video shows the everyday Americans that made up the US navy during WW2,

              Hence all the WWII vets that died of emphysema, lung cancer, and cardiovascular disease
              Will no one tell me what she sings?--
              Perhaps the plaintive numbers flow
              For old, unhappy, far-off things,
              And battles long ago:
              -William Wordsworth, "The Solitary Reaper"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Desiree Clary View Post
                Hence all the WWII vets that died of emphysema, lung cancer, and cardiovascular disease
                Don't know about the US forces but fags were part of the British rations. They were specially marked as a (vain) attempt to stop them being sold on the black market.
                Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Desiree Clary View Post
                  Hence all the WWII vets that died of emphysema, lung cancer, and cardiovascular disease
                  All good in the hood my lady. Fatty foods can be deadly, probably more so compared to Tobacco.


                  Steel workers won WW2. Without American steel the allies would be dead in their tracks. How ugly our country is today, how beautiful it was during the 1940s.
                  Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM

                  Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                  George S Patton

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                    All good in the hood my lady. Fatty foods can be deadly, probably more so compared to Tobacco.

                    Depends on the fats - some fats are better for one than carbohydrates and refined sugars. Tobacco on the other hand is all bad. Kids don't suffer from second hand fatty foods but they do from second hand smoke.
                    Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                    Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                      All good in the hood my lady. Fatty foods can be deadly, probably more so compared to Tobacco.

                      Pish, tosh. In my stint at the VA, I saw 10 cases of tobacco-related disease for every one case of atherosclerotic vascular disease in non-smokers. Smoking also makes it more likely that one will develop cardiovascular disease. Tobacco is bad, bad, bad, the true "killer weed."
                      Will no one tell me what she sings?--
                      Perhaps the plaintive numbers flow
                      For old, unhappy, far-off things,
                      And battles long ago:
                      -William Wordsworth, "The Solitary Reaper"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Desiree Clary View Post
                        Pish, tosh. In my stint at the VA, I saw 10 cases of tobacco-related disease for every one case of atherosclerotic vascular disease in non-smokers. Smoking also makes it more likely that one will develop cardiovascular disease. Tobacco is bad, bad, bad, the true "killer weed."
                        Wait I stand by you. In a free society as 1940s USA was, a man or woman has a right to smoke a cigarette or ingest fatty foods, or drive a car...all of which could produce side effects.
                        Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM

                        Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                        George S Patton

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                          Depends on the fats - some fats are better for one than carbohydrates and refined sugars. Tobacco on the other hand is all bad. Kids don't suffer from second hand fatty foods but they do from second hand smoke.
                          Fair point. Motor Vehicles like cigarettes could also produce side effects.
                          Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM

                          Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                          George S Patton

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Desiree Clary View Post
                            Hence all the WWII vets that died of emphysema, lung cancer, and cardiovascular disease
                            As opposed to severe lead and iron poisoning... I think they earned the Right to choose their poison if they wanted to.



                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                              As opposed to severe lead and iron poisoning... I think they earned the Right to choose their poison if they wanted to.
                              Of course they have the right to smoke. It's what they should have done that I am addressing, from the purely medical point of view. My bf (a surgeon) said that when he was a teenager (in the sixties) working at a Catholic hospital in Ft. Worth, lots of the docs smoked. Now, not so much. You couldn't find an ashtray in my home hospital except in the social worker's office. (they have to provide one, under "proper" circumstances (i.e., no oxygen masks or tanks and nobody else in the room).
                              Will no one tell me what she sings?--
                              Perhaps the plaintive numbers flow
                              For old, unhappy, far-off things,
                              And battles long ago:
                              -William Wordsworth, "The Solitary Reaper"

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Desiree Clary View Post
                                Of course they have the right to smoke. It's what they should have done that I am addressing, from the purely medical point of view. My bf (a surgeon) said that when he was a teenager (in the sixties) working at a Catholic hospital in Ft. Worth, lots of the docs smoked. Now, not so much. You couldn't find an ashtray in my home hospital except in the social worker's office. (they have to provide one, under "proper" circumstances (i.e., no oxygen masks or tanks and nobody else in the room).
                                No one warned of the dangers of smoking in the 30s and 40s, even the fifties and 60s. If you were male usually you smoked. Not so much with Females. I often think about the smoke covered places of entertainment where I spent my youth. lcm1
                                'By Horse by Tram'.


                                I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
                                " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

                                Comment

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