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P47N, the ultimate Thunderbolt

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  • P47N, the ultimate Thunderbolt

    The final large scale production model of the rugged U.S. P47 was the N model.

    As far as I've found it was only used by the U.S. in the Pacific against the Imperial Japan.

    It was a long range model for escorting bombers on missions to Japan.

    It had a top speed of over 460 MPH! Outclassing all late World War II Japanese fighters.

    I wonder how it would have done against late war German propeller driven fighters?
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
    Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

  • #2
    No, this is the ultimate P-47...



    That is the XP-72. It was a development of the P-47 that gave the plane a new engine and turbo-supercharger.
    The two prototypes hit 470+ (the second went to about 490) and climbed a mile-a-minute.

    The production version with the full five stage turbo-supercharger versus the three stage P-47 one, counter-rotating propellers, and other refinements was expected to exceed 520 mph and climb in excess of 6,000 feet per minute.

    It was cancelled because the USAAF didn't need interceptors in late 1944. They told Republic to put their effort into developing the P-84 Thunderjet instead.

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    • #3
      Too late.

      Great piston engined aircraft, but jets were already in development.
      How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
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      • #4
        In my view, if the P-72 had entered service it would have given the Me 262 a really serious problem. It was as fast, or nearly so, had a far higher roll rate (the P-47 had a high roll rate and that shouldn't change), was more maneuverable having much lower wing loading, out climbed the Me 262, and likely had a higher terminal dive speed. With the usual 6 or 8 .50 machineguns and a K-11 gyro gun sight it would have been a real terror of a plane for a 262 pilot to encounter.

        Against the Ta 152H it couldn't turn with it but it had every other advantage in a dogfight.

        Germany's best in 1945 were not up to the Allies' best in piston engine airplanes.

        The P-72, Martin Baker MB 5, and several other late war designs that didn't go into production because they weren't needed, easily equaled or exceeded anything the Germans were shoving into service half tested.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
          Too late.

          Great piston engined aircraft, but jets were already in development.
          Yeah, by the time you get something perfected, it always seems to be obsolete.

          What about the M version? The stripped-down P-47 that was meant to chase down V-1?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by 17thfabn View Post
            ...I wonder how it would have done against late war German propeller driven fighters?...
            Probably the same as the D models -- shot them out of the skies.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 17thfabn View Post
              The final large scale production model of the rugged U.S. P47 was the N model.

              As far as I've found it was only used by the U.S. in the Pacific against the Imperial Japan.

              It was a long range model for escorting bombers on missions to Japan.

              It had a top speed of over 460 MPH!
              The XP47J exceeded 500 mph
              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                The XP47J exceeded 500 mph

                In prototype it may well have done, but if it was put into production it is doubtful it would have been as fast. Anyway, the DH Hornet and Supermarine Spiteful were put into production and into service and did fly at speeds of 475 mph/483mph, did have a range of 2,500 miles/560 miles and could fly at over 41,000 ft/42,000ft. and climb at 5,000ft per minute/4,900ft per minute. So had the war dragged on, they would have sorted out your TA's and Arrows.

                Paul
                ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
                All human ills he can subdue,
                Or with a bauble or medal
                Can win mans heart for you;
                And many a blessing know to stew
                To make a megloamaniac bright;
                Give honour to the dainty Corse,
                The Pixie is a little shite.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                  The XP47J exceeded 500 mph
                  The XP-47J was the original test bed for the XP-72, the operational design. The two prototypes actually were fully equipped when tested. The P-72 would have significantly exceeded 500 mph in service.

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                  • #10
                    The XP-72 never was put into production and Wki has this:

                    "Test pilot Tom Bellinger stated flatly that no flights ever exceeded 500 mph. The dash 13 engine was not supercharged. With the planned but never installed dash 19 engine (with a remote supercharger) rated at 3,650 HP at 25,000 ft. (3,000 HP at sea level) a top speed of 504 mph at approximately 25,000 feet was expected. Planned further development of the dash 19 engine was expected to yield approximately 4,000 hp and a speed of 540 mph at 25,000 ft."

                    And this:

                    http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircr...ircraft_id=419

                    Paul
                    Last edited by Dibble201Bty; 21 Apr 16, 20:02.
                    ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
                    All human ills he can subdue,
                    Or with a bauble or medal
                    Can win mans heart for you;
                    And many a blessing know to stew
                    To make a megloamaniac bright;
                    Give honour to the dainty Corse,
                    The Pixie is a little shite.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
                      The XP-72 never was put into production and Wki has this:

                      "Test pilot Tom Bellinger stated flatly that no flights ever exceeded 500 mph. The dash 13 engine was not supercharged. With the planned but never installed dash 19 engine (with a remote supercharger) rated at 3,650 HP at 25,000 ft. (3,000 HP at sea level) a top speed of 504 mph at approximately 25,000 feet was expected. Planned further development of the dash 19 engine was expected to yield approximately 4,000 hp and a speed of 540 mph at 25,000 ft."

                      And this:

                      http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircr...ircraft_id=419

                      Paul
                      You might note my original post on the XP-72 which clearly stated that the prototypes didn't get the full operationally planned engine and hit 470 to 490 mph with the one installed.
                      Given the planes were armed and equipped as the operational aircraft would have been (you can make out the gun barrels in the wing for example in the photo provided), it is pretty clear that 500 mph would have been exceeded with the production model.

                      And, no the P-72 was not put into production for the reasons I gave earlier. However, like many other Allied late war aircraft it was cancelled because the Allies didn't need it. Several promising variants of the Hawker Fury and Tempest were cancelled likewise. The Martin Baker MB 5 was cancelled.
                      By the beginning of 1945 it was clear to the major powers that jets were the future and further development of piston engine fighters was a dead end.

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                      • #12
                        But It's the types that were, not what might have been. Service variants aren't prototypes. Like the Ju.388 and yer 'Superbolt' it's all 'whatiff' flannel juice.

                        Paul
                        ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
                        All human ills he can subdue,
                        Or with a bauble or medal
                        Can win mans heart for you;
                        And many a blessing know to stew
                        To make a megloamaniac bright;
                        Give honour to the dainty Corse,
                        The Pixie is a little shite.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
                          But It's the types that were, not what might have been. Service variants aren't prototypes. Like the Ju.388 and yer 'Superbolt' it's all 'whatiff' flannel juice.

                          Paul
                          The P47N was in fact in squadron service during the war in fairly large numbers.

                          I don't know if it would have been available by VE day.

                          BTW the British to American translator was unable to find "flannel juice"
                          "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
                          Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 17thfabn View Post
                            The P47N was in fact in squadron service during the war in fairly large numbers.

                            I don't know if it would have been available by VE day.

                            BTW the British to American translator was unable to find "flannel juice"
                            I have have mentioned nothing about the P47N, the same as I haven't mentioned the P51H either as at least they were produced for service and have known in-service performance data.

                            Paul
                            ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
                            All human ills he can subdue,
                            Or with a bauble or medal
                            Can win mans heart for you;
                            And many a blessing know to stew
                            To make a megloamaniac bright;
                            Give honour to the dainty Corse,
                            The Pixie is a little shite.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
                              Anyway, the DH Hornet and Supermarine Spiteful were put into production and into service...
                              Not the Spiteful. A total of 17 aircraft and various prototypes (four or five) were completed. Of these 17 the last three were never flown but delivered to John Dale Ltd for scrap. Supermarine's last invoice for the type was for 16 aircraft under contract 1877/C,23(c), RB515-525 and RB527-531. None were used operationally by the RAF. I don't believe that any were taken on charge, but would need to check.

                              .

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