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Mad Jack Churchill, one bad hombre

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  • #16
    Originally posted by lcm1 View Post

    Refresh this shaky old memory. I know I should remember but I don't. lcm1
    Hint...he singlehandedly orchestrated the surrender of 23,000 German troops at the Das Reich Headquarters by bluffing that the Royal Air Force would unleash hell if they didn't. At the time, he was one man all alone. The RAF didn't know his whereabouts but he managed to convince German Gen. Botho Henning Elster to give up his men and vehicles.
    Last edited by Persephone; 19 Nov 19, 21:09.
    "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

    "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

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    • #17
      His name is Sir Tommy Macpherson, he had a 30,000 Franc bounty on his head for whichever German could kill him first.
      "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

      "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Persephone View Post
        His name is Sir Tommy Macpherson, he had a 30,000 Franc bounty on his head for whichever German could kill him first.
        Ah YES!! Shaky old Ken is now with it!! lcm1
        'By Horse by Tram'.


        I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
        " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

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        • #19
          That photo of him leading a landing exercise sword in hand is one of my favorites from WWII:

          the-strange-tale-of-the-british-soldier-who-killed-nazis-with-a-sword-and-a-longbow-1480694581-crop_mobile_400.jpg?crop=1xw:1xh;center,center&resize=700:*.jpg
          Last edited by KRJ; 27 Nov 19, 18:43.
          "Shoot for the epaulets, boys! Shoot for the epaulets!" - Daniel Morgan

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          • #20
            He was also very persuasive. He managed to survive Sauchenhausen concentration camp by persuading a regular German unit to intervene before the SS guards murdered him and the surviving prisoners. A number of British Pows were murdered there.
            "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Surrey View Post
              He was also very persuasive. He managed to survive Sauchenhausen concentration camp by persuading a regular German unit to intervene before the SS guards murdered him and the surviving prisoners. A number of British Pows were murdered there.
              What the hell were POWs doing in a Concentration Camp?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Phaing View Post

                What the hell were POWs doing in a Concentration Camp?
                The Germans often sent PoWs to concentration camps. You didn’t think the Nazis followed the Geneva conventions did you?

                "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Phaing View Post

                  What the hell were POWs doing in a Concentration Camp?
                  The Germans thought Jack Churchill was related to Winston. They collected POWs thought to be related to important people in order to hold them as hostages and a special holding facility was created within Sauchenhausen for this purpose. It was separate from the main body of the camp and its inmates were treated better than the ordinary prisoners. There were also other special blocks within the camp for prisoners with special skills thought to be useful to the regime - forgers for example they too had better treatment but as one survivor put it regarded themselves as "dead men on holiday".
                  By and large the German Army, Navy and Luftwaffe did apply the Geneva convention to POWs from the Western Allies but in the latter years of the war responsibilities for more and more POWs were transferred to the SS who did not. Amongst other things labour camps for POWs were attached to concentration camps.
                  Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                  Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by MarkV View Post

                    The Germans thought Jack Churchill was related to Winston. They collected POWs thought to be related to important people in order to hold them as hostages and a special holding facility was created within Sauchenhausen for this purpose. It was separate from the main body of the camp and its inmates were treated better than the ordinary prisoners. There were also other special blocks within the camp for prisoners with special skills thought to be useful to the regime - forgers for example they too had better treatment but as one survivor put it regarded themselves as "dead men on holiday".
                    By and large the German Army, Navy and Luftwaffe did apply the Geneva convention to POWs from the Western Allies but in the latter years of the war responsibilities for more and more POWs were transferred to the SS who did not. Amongst other things labour camps for POWs were attached to concentration camps.
                    Just when you thought those guys couldn't get more disgusting then they already were...

                    "dead men on holiday", was it a form of psychological warfare then, putting those men in the middle of a place like that so that they would be emotionally damaged by the time they were exchanged?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Phaing View Post

                      Just when you thought those guys couldn't get more disgusting then they already were...

                      "dead men on holiday", was it a form of psychological warfare then, putting those men in the middle of a place like that so that they would be emotionally damaged by the time they were exchanged?
                      A number of allied pows were murdered at Sauchenhasuen. It was one of the places were captured Allied ‘Commandos’ who were not shot out of hand were sent. The Germans didn’t apply the Geneva Conventions to any Allied soldiers that they considered Comandos under Commando order.
                      The Pows at Sauchenhausen did not get better treatment. They were subject torture and execution.
                      "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Surrey View Post

                        The Germans often sent PoWs to concentration camps. You didn’t think the Nazis followed the Geneva conventions did you?
                        Brother!! Are you still under the illusion that they needed an excuse to hold ANYONE in a concentration camp?? lcm1
                        'By Horse by Tram'.


                        I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
                        " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by lcm1 View Post

                          Brother!! Are you still under the illusion that they needed an excuse to hold ANYONE in a concentration camp?? lcm1
                          Excuse my ignorance, but that was from me.

                          I thought that the POW camps were rotten enough, and that Concentration camps were under heavier guard or something. It also seems dangerous; why put fighting men who would be motivated and trained for the rigors of escape in with hordes of civilians and political prisoners?
                          Asking for trouble seems to be embedded in German DNA.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Phaing View Post

                            Excuse my ignorance, but that was from me.

                            I thought that the POW camps were rotten enough, and that Concentration camps were under heavier guard or something. It also seems dangerous; why put fighting men who would be motivated and trained for the rigors of escape in with hordes of civilians and political prisoners?
                            Asking for trouble seems to be embedded in German DNA.
                            As the war continued and the German army was being pushed back from both Russia and the Atlantic wall, the Germans needed more men on the lines, so combining POW camps and Concentration Camps was a way to do that. It was not uncommon for British, Canadian and American POWs to be moved further east several times by trains and unfortunately many were killed by Allied air attacks targeting trains, just as in the Pacific where the Japanese transported many POWs to Japan by ships that were sunk by submarine and air attacks.
                            Many Allied POWs held by Germany ended up in Poland and were liberated by Russian forces.
                            For a good first hand account look for Behind Hitler's Lines, by Thomas H Taylor, the only man known to have served in both the American and Russian armies.
                            https://www.amazon.com/Behind-Hitler.../dp/0891418458
                            Last edited by Urban hermit; 03 Dec 19, 00:12.
                            Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                            Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

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