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Why do people downplay other countries contributions to WW2

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  • Why do people downplay other countries contributions to WW2

    Something i have noticed here is the general attitude of

    U.S:All the did was outbuild the Axis and bomb and starve them out. If it was a equal fight zee Wunderwaffen would be victorious
    UK. All they did was beat the crap out of Italy and bomb ****
    USSR; A. Glorious Invincible Communist Party crush all Axis with no Axis help
    B. A big incompetent Giant that was only "saved" by the Allies
    Germany; A: Sieg Heil oh wait Hitler did nothing right. Clean Whermacht and Nationial Socialism exist in one country. If only we had more ME 262's,. Panzer's, winter clothes they would win the war
    B. Germany is going to lose the war no matter what in the same condition that it was 45
    Italy: Runs away
    France; See Italy. However they should of won only if they had ( better doctrine more planes, hmm sounds familiar
    Japan: Banzai kick America in the pair and hope that he dosen't come after you

    Why do we do this. I am suprised that so many people are not willing to acknowledge what happened and that everybody had a major part.

  • #2
    I think I get your point but that is a very confusing post.
    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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    • #3
      In short, ignorance, jingoism, popular (tv mainly) history, cold war propaganda.

      There is a long version but 5000 word essays are not my forte this year!
      Signing out.

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      • #4
        www.histours.ru

        Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Lionhearti View Post
          Something i have noticed here is the general attitude of

          U.S:All the did was outbuild the Axis and bomb and starve them out. If it was a equal fight zee Wunderwaffen would be victorious
          UK. All they did was beat the crap out of Italy and bomb ****
          USSR; A. Glorious Invincible Communist Party crush all Axis with no Axis help
          B. A big incompetent Giant that was only "saved" by the Allies
          Germany; A: Sieg Heil oh wait Hitler did nothing right. Clean Whermacht and Nationial Socialism exist in one country. If only we had more ME 262's,. Panzer's, winter clothes they would win the war
          B. Germany is going to lose the war no matter what in the same condition that it was 45
          Italy: Runs away
          France; See Italy. However they should of won only if they had ( better doctrine more planes, hmm sounds familiar
          Japan: Banzai kick America in the pair and hope that he dosen't come after you

          Why do we do this. I am suprised that so many people are not willing to acknowledge what happened and that everybody had a major part.
          Everyone has a slant on WW2, whether conscious or not. It depends much on what one has read, how good those sources are, and whether one was able to believe the validity of opinions presented.

          I will say that nationalism does appear to play a large part in many viewpoints.
          How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
          Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Lionhearti View Post
            USSR; A. Glorious Invincible Communist Party crush all Axis with no Axis help
            www.histours.ru

            Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ShAA View Post
              I look at those Gifs and for some reason I think of food!
              Signing out.

              Comment


              • #8
                To all but the more ignorant, it's a little more complicated than that;

                USA - Didn't really become involved until Pearl Harbour (apart from the lend-lease act). Industrial capacity was certainly a factor in the Allied victory, as were the sheer numbers.

                USSR - Vicious attacks on Poland and Finland (and a bit of a kicking in the latter) before being forced into the Allied camp in Summer '41. While initially taken by surprise, the barbaric Eastern Front dragged the German Army into a meat-grinder from which there was no escape. Questionable actions towards the end of the war and a bit after.

                UK - Declared war to protect Poland, but in no position to do much about it, suffered a couple of disastrous reverses in both Europe and the F.E. before becoming a major player. Derived some advantage from her enemies concentrating on, 'England,' which gave her a chance to wrong-foot them.

                France - Suffered catastrophic military defeat, but refused to lie down. French troops landed in Normandy in '44 bringing a few friends along.


                Italy - Mussolini entered WW2 because he wanted a share of the spoils before the war was over. Poorly-equipped and trained Italian troops did their share of the fighting in unimportant little skirmishes like Stalingrad and El-Alamein. Ended WW2 in a state of virtual civil war as troops loyal to Mussolini fought just about everybody else.

                Germany - A country gone mad. Everybody blames Hitler, forgetting the popular support he had in the first place. Failure to knock the UK out of the war should've been a warning, but German forces were committed to three fronts in a war that could not be won.

                The German soldier was brave, tough and savvy. German industry produced some incredible weapons - if nowhere near enough of them. Even fighting a war they couldn't win, it took 6 years to beat them.

                Japan - Never having lost a war, they bit off a bit more than they could chew. They did gain all of the territory they wanted in 18 months, but found it impossible to hold it. Sickening list of atrocities belies well-trained forces making remarkable achievements.

                British Commonwealth - Sorry to lump these guys all together, but what can I say ? Superb soldiers who fought and won a war that they only joined out of friendship.

                Summarising is something we all do, it's difficult to get all the pertinent bits in.
                Last edited by the ace; 29 Oct 12, 20:43.
                Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Full Monty View Post
                  I look at those Gifs and for some reason I think of food!
                  Just no dead donkeys please, we still need you alive here
                  www.histours.ru

                  Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by the ace View Post
                    USSR - ...While initially taken by surprise, the barbaric Eastern Front dragged the German Army into a meat-grinder from which there was no escape. Questionable actions towards the end of the war and a bit after.

                    Germany - ...The German soldier was brave, tough and savvy.
                    Gotta love your wording here which betrays your Cold War attitude. The Red Army is utterly faceless, and in fact it's not even there - it's some abstract barbaric "Eastern Front" presented as a sort of an elemental disaster where the Wehrmacht disappears. What you've missed out is that what made the Eastern Front barbaric is exactly the behavior of the Wehrmacht, not any sort of "inherent Soviet brutality". Symptomatically enough, unlike the Red Army, the German soldiers are personalised through your praise for their bravery.
                    www.histours.ru

                    Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Also can anybody say that any nation had cowards. To go fight with the strong chance of dying or getting hurt shows a courage forced or not

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                      • #12
                        I have said here a lot of times. WWII was a team effort and our team (Allies) beat their team (Axis). I also said any nation that contributed no matter how big or small should be recognized and appreciated.
                        Eagles may fly; but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines!

                        "I'm not expendable; I'm not stupid and I'm not going." - Kerr Avon, Blake's 7

                        What didn't kill us; didn't make us smarter.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                          Tenderizing the Red Army's dinner are we...?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lionhearti View Post
                            Something i have noticed here is the general attitude of

                            U.S:All the did was outbuild the Axis and bomb and starve them out. If it was a equal fight zee Wunderwaffen would be victorious
                            UK. All they did was beat the crap out of Italy and bomb ****
                            USSR; A. Glorious Invincible Communist Party crush all Axis with no Axis help
                            B. A big incompetent Giant that was only "saved" by the Allies
                            Germany; A: Sieg Heil oh wait Hitler did nothing right. Clean Whermacht and Nationial Socialism exist in one country. If only we had more ME 262's,. Panzer's, winter clothes they would win the war
                            B. Germany is going to lose the war no matter what in the same condition that it was 45
                            Italy: Runs away
                            France; See Italy. However they should of won only if they had ( better doctrine more planes, hmm sounds familiar
                            Japan: Banzai kick America in the pair and hope that he dosen't come after you

                            Why do we do this. I am suprised that so many people are not willing to acknowledge what happened and that everybody had a major part.
                            Hi

                            Firstly people who take note of such huge generalities and stereotypical remarks should be ignored by anyone with a brain.

                            Its coffee book history and usually the first resort & retort of the ignorant and the lazy.
                            Sadly you see it all to often on Forums, especially from the younger members (but not exclusively) and from those brought up on a specific media diet and national portrayals in books & film. Add the nationalistic trolls into the mix and you get the crap you mention above.

                            The inter-play between all the facets & scenarios that occurred in WW2, brought about the reality in WW2. Remove or change any aspect of that, and history would change, for the better or for the worse.

                            Regards
                            "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Churchill

                            "I'm no reactionary.Christ on the Mountain! I'm as idealistic as Hell" Eisenhower

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                              Gotta love your wording here which betrays your Cold War attitude. The Red Army is utterly faceless, and in fact it's not even there - it's some abstract barbaric "Eastern Front" presented as a sort of an elemental disaster where the Wehrmacht disappears. What you've missed out is that what made the Eastern Front barbaric is exactly the behavior of the Wehrmacht, not any sort of "inherent Soviet brutality". Symptomatically enough, unlike the Red Army, the German soldiers are personalised through your praise for their bravery.
                              I applied the epithet to both sides, Shaa. Stalin wasn't exactly a paragon of civilisation to start with, but the Nazi attitude seemed determined to catch up.

                              Soviet troops and citizens reacted to the atrocities perpetrated upon them by reacting in kind, but they were a target of genocide.

                              Why not pick on your real enemies instead of an ally trying to paint an objective picture. Or should I just be glad that you didn't start screaming over my description of Poland and the Winter War ?

                              While the Germans' morals belonged in the gutter, their courage and tenacity were beyond question.
                              Last edited by the ace; 29 Oct 12, 20:58.
                              Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

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