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Was the German Army (Heer) really so superior?

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  • Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
    Anyway, enough of this. I see we are steadily veering further and further off topic; and I have just contributed to it! Maybe we should start a thread on favourite TV comedy shows. In the meantime, let's get the discussion back on course, eh?
    Oops, sorry I end my part of derailing

    Comment


    • Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
      But I believe he was a Luftwaffe general. He was Klink's superior and Klink was definitely Luftwaffe.
      Last I checked, there were no Generals der Infanterie in the Luftwaffe.

      But IMDB says thats what he was.

      Blame the show.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by The Ibis View Post
        Last I checked, there were no Generals der Infanterie in the Luftwaffe.

        But IMDB says thats what he was.

        Blame the show.
        Fair enough. And really what should we expect from a show that tried to make the SS funny?
        Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ShAA View Post
          http://www.simonov.co.uk/cemetery.htm - The British Military Cemetery at Sebastopol
          Kipling?? lcm1
          'By Horse by Tram'.


          I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
          " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ShAA View Post


            You know, I'd been told so much about refined British humour, and the first time I encountered it in the form of Benny Hill show it was a traumatic experience indeed.

            Seriously, how can you call a fat middle-aged guy running around and patting another short and bald guy on the head funny? Especially when this all is accompanied by ceaseless background laughter. I see that Britain went a long road of humour sophistication from the times of Oscar Wilde
            Oscar who?? lcm1
            'By Horse by Tram'.


            I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
            " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

            Comment


            • Interesting insights from a German Heavy weapons company officer, 58th Infantry division (Gates of Leningrad):

              - The Russian artillery efficiency was equal to ours
              - The Russians had unusually large numbers of snipers, and their sniper rifles were superior to the German types. German snipers would swap their rifles for Russian ones, if available.
              - My issued Mp40, with range 50 meters, was about as effective as a shotgun. I much preferred to carry a rifle if possible.
              - What hurt the Russians most were their political officers, which were attached down to the company level. They effected decision making among the Soviet infantry. He estimates, based on military intelligence, that 25% of the Soviet casualties facing the 58th Infantry division were avoidable, and can be directly blamed on these political officers.
              - The 'Asian' Russian infantry were better fighters than the 'Slavs'.
              Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
              Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
              Barbarossa Derailed I & II
              Battle of Kalinin October 1941

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
                Interesting insights from a German Heavy weapons company officer, 58th Infantry division (Gates of Leningrad):

                - The Russian artillery efficiency was equal to ours
                - The Russians had unusually large numbers of snipers, and their sniper rifles were superior to the German types. German snipers would swap their rifles for Russian ones, if available.
                - My issued Mp40, with range 50 meters, was about as effective as a shotgun. I much preferred to carry a rifle if possible.
                - What hurt the Russians most were their political officers, which were attached down to the company level. They effected decision making among the Soviet infantry. He estimates, based on military intelligence, that 25% of the Soviet casualties facing the 58th Infantry division were avoidable, and can be directly blamed on these political officers.
                - The 'Asian' Russian infantry were better fighters than the 'Slavs'.
                I am not suprised at the comment about the Russian Political officers, the Army officers were afraid of them,knowing that they were sending good or bad reports back to Moscow on a regular basis so they 'leaned over backwards' not to offend them and consequently some of their orders were effected to the detriment of the men under their command. lcm1
                'By Horse by Tram'.


                I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
                " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by lcm1 View Post
                  I am not suprised at the comment about the Russian Political officers, the Army officers were afraid of them,knowing that they were sending good or bad reports back to Moscow on a regular basis so they 'leaned over backwards' not to offend them and consequently some of their orders were effected to the detriment of the men under their command. lcm1
                  Yes, in his accounts the 'enemy' Political officers tended to disrupt soviet infantry leadership. When they made irrational attacks or defensive actions, it was often due to the interference from the Commissars.

                  and, oddly enough (since the 'Enemy at the Gates' intro battle is much maligned..) he records his experience seeing a failed Russian infantry attack with one wave of men with no weapons at all, and the Germans cut these men down as they tried to retrieve weapons from the prior failed attack.
                  Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                  Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                  Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                  Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
                    Interesting insights from a German Heavy weapons company officer, 58th Infantry division (Gates of Leningrad):

                    - The Russian artillery efficiency was equal to ours
                    I'm surprised he rated his own so highly.

                    Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
                    - The Russians had unusually large numbers of snipers, and their sniper rifles were superior to the German types. German snipers would swap their rifles for Russian ones, if available.
                    Better yet; German scopes on Russian rifles,
                    Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
                    - My issued Mp40, with range 50 meters, was about as effective as a shotgun. I much preferred to carry a rifle if possible.
                    Common sentiment. If it ain't a close-quarters fight, an SMG is just a heavy ornament.
                    Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
                    - What hurt the Russians most were their political officers, which were attached down to the company level. They effected decision making among the Soviet infantry. He estimates, based on military intelligence, that 25% of the Soviet casualties facing the 58th Infantry division were avoidable, and can be directly blamed on these political officers.
                    I wonder if China still has those.
                    North Korea certainly does, to make sure all those guns don't get aimed at the "Dear Leader".
                    Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
                    - The 'Asian' Russian infantry were better fighters than the 'Slavs'.
                    I have heard the opposite, except when it came to Sergeants.
                    "Why is the Rum gone?"

                    -Captain Jack

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                      http://www.simonov.co.uk/cemetery.htm - The British Military Cemetery at Sebastopol

                      The long toll of the brave
                      Is not lost in darkness
                      Over the fruitful earth
                      And athwart the seas
                      Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                      Unquenchable forever.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                        I did not know you were an old Etonian
                        I think he's a Rugby man, actually

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
                          But I believe he was a Luftwaffe general. He was Klink's superior and Klink was definitely Luftwaffe.
                          Sorry, General der Infanterie Albert Hans Burkhalter was not LW.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by lcm1 View Post
                            Kipling?? lcm1
                            This is Konstantin Simonov, one of the finest Russian war poets of the 20th century. He was a correspondent at Khalkhin-Gol and in WW2.

                            Although he wasn't primarily focused on describing historical events of the past, he wrote a few poems about the Crimean War. Here's his best pre-war poem "The Lieutenant", dedicated to the Siege of Petropavlovsk.

                            http://www.simonov.co.uk/lieutenant.htm

                            For three long months continues the bombardment.
                            The bloodstained Malakhov withstands it still.
                            The hoarse-voiced drum drives on the British redcoats.
                            Once more they throw themselves against the hill!

                            But by the far Pacific on Kamchatka
                            The fortress slumbers on in peace profound.
                            The lame lieutenant, garrison commander,
                            Pulls on his gloves and goes his daily round.

                            A grey old soldier, lazily saluting,
                            Shades with his sleeve his eyes against the sun;
                            The skinny goat belonging to the fortress
                            Is tethered with a rope beside the gun.

                            ...
                            www.histours.ru

                            Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

                            Comment


                            • Bad mouthing Benny Hill?! Geez, that is sacrilege!!!!

                              Regards,
                              Dennis
                              If stupid was a criminal offense Sea Lion believers would be doing life.

                              Shouting out to Half Pint for bringing back the big mugs!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                                This is Konstantin Simonov, one of the finest Russian war poets of the 20th century. He was a correspondent at Khalkhin-Gol and in WW2.

                                Although he wasn't primarily focused on describing historical events of the past, he wrote a few poems about the Crimean War. Here's his best pre-war poem "The Lieutenant", dedicated to the Siege of Petropavlovsk.

                                http://www.simonov.co.uk/lieutenant.htm
                                I'm a lover of 'good' poetry and that certainly falls into that category,he sounds a bit 'Kiplinish' do you know Kiplins 'Recessional'? A lot of people do not know that those Famous words "Lest we forget" come from that poem. lcm1
                                'By Horse by Tram'.


                                I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
                                " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

                                Comment

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