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WWI rifles: Who had the best?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by johnbryan View Post
    Re: the Ross Rifle. I heard if you could keep it clean, it was one hellova' fine rifle and accurate as all get out.
    ill give you that
    as infantry mans rifle in the trenches in WWI it was garbage but some snipers did prefer it

    Comment


    • #32
      I don't know the best, but maybe the worst was ours...
      A ME LE GUARDIE
      "Di noi tremò la nostra vecchia gloria. Tre secoli di fede e una vittoria". Gabriele D'Annunzio

      Comment


      • #33
        Granatiere,

        Arguably the French and Japanese rifles are below the level of the Italian rifles. I am not sure of where to place the Austrian-Hungarian as well.

        Pruitt
        Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

        Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

        by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

        Comment


        • #34
          Springfield hands down.... it's not just the rifle but also the round.
          My worst jump story:
          My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
          As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
          No lie.

          ~
          "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
          -2 Commando Jumpmaster

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
            Granatiere,

            Arguably the French and Japanese rifles are below the level of the Italian rifles.
            The old Lebel, arguably, as it was literally The Mother of all these rifles under discussion.

            The Berthier, maybe not.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
              Granatiere,

              Arguably the French and Japanese rifles are below the level of the Italian rifles. I am not sure of where to place the Austrian-Hungarian as well.

              Pruitt

              Pruitt,

              I would like to hear your arguments about the poor quality of the French rifles, I own Lebels and Berthiers rifles and am dying to learn about their shortcomings, since up to now I have only appreciated their qualities both for collection and at the shooting range.

              kelt
              Last edited by kelt06; 12 Jul 10, 16:29.

              Comment


              • #37
                Kelt,

                I am comfortable about my feelings on Italian, Japanese and French rifles. Each had advantages and disadvantages. Why don't you share your experience with the Berthier and the Lebel?

                Pruitt
                Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                  Kelt,

                  I am comfortable about my feelings on Italian, Japanese and French rifles. Each had advantages and disadvantages. Why don't you share your experience with the Berthier and the Lebel?

                  Pruitt
                  Pruitt,

                  Your reluctance to bring forward details about your feelings is noted !

                  I doubt that you have anything constructive to bring in, since you claimed wrongly that the Lebel doesn't have a front sight, I deduct from it that you don't have "in hands experience" and rely on hearsay.

                  Here is a picture (taken from a video clip hence the poor quality) of some "in hands" experience with my musketoon Berthier mle M16.




                  kelt
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by kelt06; 13 Jul 10, 05:32. Reason: added picture

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Kelt,

                    There is nothing wrong about my feelings. The subject of French Rifles in WW 1 is just not worth the time to find my resources. Are YOU going to present a case for me on the subject? You seem to be dodging a subject again.

                    Pruitt
                    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                      Kelt,

                      There is nothing wrong about my feelings. The subject of French Rifles in WW 1 is just not worth the time to find my resources. Are YOU going to present a case for me on the subject? You seem to be dodging a subject again.

                      Pruitt


                      Pruitt, if I need advice on dodging a subject I will come to you!

                      Do not turn this little chat inside out, you claimed that the French rifles are of poor quality, then you'd better come up with some convincing arguments instead of what you make a lame excuse about ressources, and that means that you rely on others expertise not your own.

                      If said expertise is of the same quality as the nonsense about the Lebel having no front sight, you are excused form the discussion


                      kelt
                      Last edited by kelt06; 13 Jul 10, 11:15.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Kelt,

                        I don't have to get interested in French Rifles. I said they were about the same quality as Italian and Japanese Rifles. If and when I decide to dig out my Small Arms books I will let you know.

                        Let us see YOU make a claim about them! You like them better than I do.

                        You might consider the tubular magazine on the Lebel and the three round magazine on the Berthier. At the time the British had developed a ten round detachable magazine the French could only go 3 rounds? I guess they made it better by upgrading to a five round magazine but they could have gone ten.

                        Pruitt
                        Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                        Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                        by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Gentlemen,
                          May I remind you to go hard on the subject but soft on one another.
                          BoRG

                          You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                            Kelt,

                            I don't have to get interested in French Rifles. I said they were about the same quality as Italian and Japanese Rifles.
                            Short memory? here is what you wrote:

                            Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                            Granatiere,

                            Arguably the French and Japanese rifles are below the level of the Italian rifles. I am not sure of where to place the Austrian-Hungarian as well.

                            Pruitt


                            Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                            If and when I decide to dig out my Small Arms books I will let you know.
                            Don't bother, your skit about the Lebel front sight while funny has disqualified you from providing a sound advice.




                            Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                            Let us see YOU make a claim about them! You like them better than I do.

                            You might consider the tubular magazine on the Lebel and the three round magazine on the Berthier. At the time the British had developed a ten round detachable magazine the French could only go 3 rounds? I guess they made it better by upgrading to a five round magazine but they could have gone ten.

                            Pruitt
                            You apparently missed that while I rebuked your poorly informed claim of "no front sight Lebel" in my post #20, my post #22 clarified why I think that the Berthier mle M16 Musketoon is the best WWI rifle and the most suitable for trench warfare.

                            Here are some further details:
                            - short and handy in the trenches: 945mm,
                            - light and well balanced at 3.25kg
                            - fastest loading with a 5 shot "en bloc" clip.
                            - sights designed for quick snap shots and accurate shooting without alteration.
                            - night sights (radium paint).


                            Picture of 3 of my short Berthier rifles:
                            -Cavalry carbine Mle 1890
                            -Artillery musketoon Mle 1892
                            -Artillery musketoon Mle M16




                            kelt
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by kelt06; 13 Jul 10, 13:07.

                            Comment


                            • #44

                              Three nice looking popguns there kelt, I'd still lick yer on the range with mi' trusty old Smelly though!
                              The long toll of the brave
                              Is not lost in darkness
                              Over the fruitful earth
                              And athwart the seas
                              Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                              Unquenchable forever.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I hate to bring this up but the NRA did some extensive testing of the Japanese T97 and T99 rifles and found them to be very well made. I will agree they are crude but the metallurgy used by the Japanese was excellent. I also recall a President that was killed with an Italian Carcano... maybe they weren't that bad either.

                                Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                                Kelt,

                                I don't have to get interested in French Rifles. I said they were about the same quality as Italian and Japanese Rifles. If and when I decide to dig out my Small Arms books I will let you know.

                                Let us see YOU make a claim about them! You like them better than I do.

                                You might consider the tubular magazine on the Lebel and the three round magazine on the Berthier. At the time the British had developed a ten round detachable magazine the French could only go 3 rounds? I guess they made it better by upgrading to a five round magazine but they could have gone ten.

                                Pruitt
                                My worst jump story:
                                My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                                As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                                No lie.

                                ~
                                "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                                -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                                Comment

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