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  • The fleet that commited suicide

    21st June 1919 the German High Seas fleet scuttled itself. This BBC item has some good photos. There is going to be some form of ceremony at Scapa Flow today.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48599958

    It is said that salvaging and selling steel from the ships helped the Orcadians ride out the Great Depression
    Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
    Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

  • #2
    The long toll of the brave
    Is not lost in darkness
    Over the fruitful earth
    And athwart the seas
    Hath passed the light of noble deeds
    Unquenchable forever.

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    • #3
      Wait what???

      Screen Shot 2019-06-24 at 11.48.07.png"Will post to Switzerland?" Would be cool to putter around Lake Geneva though...
      Attached Files

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      • #4
        Originally posted by joea View Post
        Wait what???

        Screen Shot 2019-06-24 at 11.48.07.png"Will post to Switzerland?" Would be cool to putter around Lake Geneva though...
        I'll accept certified cheques, bearer bonds, or pallets of cocaine
        In advance of course...
        The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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        • #5
          Originally posted by MarkV View Post
          21st June 1919 the German High Seas fleet scuttled itself. This BBC item has some good photos. There is going to be some form of ceremony at Scapa Flow today.
          https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48599958

          It is said that salvaging and selling steel from the ships helped the Orcadians ride out the Great Depression
          Salvaging WWII steel is an even bigger industry now, since it is the only low-radiation steel available in the world since the advent of The Bomb, and therefore valuable in many research uses.
          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

            Salvaging WWII steel is an even bigger industry now, since it is the only low-radiation steel available in the world since the advent of The Bomb, and therefore valuable in many research uses.
            Over simplifying again. It's not low radiation steel but steel that is completely free of certain isotopes that are created in nuclear fission. It is possible to produce such steel today - starting with iron ore - but it's cheaper to salvage old warships
            Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
            Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MarkV View Post

              Over simplifying again. It's not low radiation steel but steel that is completely free of certain isotopes that are created in nuclear fission. It is possible to produce such steel today - starting with iron ore - but it's cheaper to salvage old warships
              That would seem to indicate that either mining fresh ore or refining it has become rather expensive, at least more expensive than sending divers and gear to salvage ships from the sea bottom.
              I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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              • #8
                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                That would seem to indicate that either mining fresh ore or refining it has become rather expensive, at least more expensive than sending divers and gear to salvage ships from the sea bottom.
                Processing from ore has to be done in a particular way so that there is no contamination from the isotopes which since the first nukes were exploded have been present in the atmosphere albeit in very small quantities. This is apparently very expensive. The old steel is used in some scientific equipment/instruments which are very sensitive
                Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MarkV View Post

                  Processing from ore has to be done in a particular way so that there is no contamination from the isotopes which since the first nukes were exploded have been present in the atmosphere albeit in very small quantities. This is apparently very expensive. The old steel is used in some scientific equipment/instruments which are very sensitive
                  Not that I'm a metallurgist -- 'cause I'm not -- but wouldn't some of the isotopes dispersed since 1945 sink to the bottom of the oceans, thus potentially contaminating metal down there?
                  I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                    Not that I'm a metallurgist -- 'cause I'm not -- but wouldn't some of the isotopes dispersed since 1945 sink to the bottom of the oceans, thus potentially contaminating metal down there?
                    Nope they get into metal being made since they were produced
                    Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                    Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MarkV View Post

                      Over simplifying again. It's not low radiation steel but steel that is completely free of certain isotopes that are created in nuclear fission. It is possible to produce such steel today - starting with iron ore - but it's cheaper to salvage old warships
                      Not "over-simplifying"...just making it easy for you to grasp. And no, it is not possible to manufacture steel today that is free of radiation contaminants because the radiation from decades of nuclear testing has spread across the entire planet- hence the value of the steel even after factoring in the cost of recovering it.

                      Yes, you can mine uncontaminated ore, but the moment it emerges into the air it is exposed to all of the contaminants and is transported, smelted and processed using equipment that was built from post-nuclear metals; therefore, it becomes contaminated in the process, especially by the other minerals added to it during the steel-making process.

                      Nuclear testing forever altered the physical characteristics of our world, but I don;t expect anyone born after The Bomb to understand just how much.
                      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                        Not "over-simplifying"...just making it easy for you to grasp. And no, it is not possible to manufacture steel today that is free of radiation contaminants because the radiation from decades of nuclear testing has spread across the entire planet- hence the value of the steel even after factoring in the cost of recovering it.

                        Yes, you can mine uncontaminated ore, but the moment it emerges into the air it is exposed to all of the contaminants and is transported, smelted and processed using equipment that was built from post-nuclear metals; therefore, it becomes contaminated in the process, especially by the other minerals added to it during the steel-making process.

                        Nuclear testing forever altered the physical characteristics of our world, but I don;t expect anyone born after The Bomb to understand just how much.
                        I was born before the bomb and I suspect that I actually understand more than you posit
                        Don't you ever stop and read other posts and THINK before replying? NO or you wouldn't repeat to people what they have already said - and you obviously know little about the process of making steel. The isotopes that are the problem do not contaminate the ore by some sort of soaking in when it is mined. nor to they get in through equipment made from post nuclear steel etc. As I said earlier they are present in the atmosphere and get in during the steel making process. It is perfectly possible to produce uncontaminated steel using electric arc furnaces in a sealed environment - it's just very expensive
                        Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                        Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MarkV View Post

                          I was born before the bomb and I suspect that I actually understand more than you posit
                          Don't you ever stop and read other posts and THINK before replying? NO or you wouldn't repeat to people what they have already said - and you obviously know little about the process of making steel. The isotopes that are the problem do not contaminate the ore by some sort of soaking in when it is mined. nor to they get in through equipment made from post nuclear steel etc. As I said earlier they are present in the atmosphere and get in during the steel making process. It is perfectly possible to produce uncontaminated steel using electric arc furnaces in a sealed environment - it's just very expensive
                          I seriously doubt your claim to being that old given your almost complete lack of any understanding of America before the Give-Away Era. Nothing bout you or your posts shows even the smallest hint of the character or conceptual grasp of those of us born before the dawn of the Nuclear Age. You come across totally as a member of the Entitled Generation.
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                          • #14
                            The problem is Cobalt. The iron ore we produce now has more cobalt in it than the older resources used before WWI

                            You can separate cobalt (and other transition elements, like manganese and scandium) from iron ore, but it's difficult, and therefore expensive. Like anything else, iron ore is a finite resource (not that we're going to run out of it any time soon), and the purer deposits have long since been used up.
                            Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                              I seriously doubt your claim to being that old given your almost complete lack of any understanding of America before the Give-Away Era. Nothing bout you or your posts shows even the smallest hint of the character or conceptual grasp of those of us born before the dawn of the Nuclear Age. You come across totally as a member of the Entitled Generation.
                              Just shows completer ignorance on your part as per usual
                              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                              Comment

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