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  • Verdun pics

    A very good set of pics:


    http://www.france24.com/fr/diaporama...diale-bataille
    "To hell wars Grudges and parties ! As our fathers Sing in real friends, The clink of glasses Roses and lilies. The clink of glasses Roses and lilies."

  • #2
    Indeed Gauthier !Hidef pics ,that i personnaly had never seen before.
    Forget about the captions, obviously done for the youngest .
    That rug really tied the room together

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    • #3
      Originally posted by VieuxChat View Post
      Thanks for posting that VC. It's always very interesting seeing photos that may not have been familiar with.

      I'd say those were taken by one of the the pocket cameras (Browning or Kodak?) which were available in those days.

      Comment


      • #4
        VC...my bloody computer wont let me view these pics. Pity. good Verdun pics are quite hard to find.

        One thing i must ask about artillery at Verdun. Why, with the German deployment of their larger field artillery (420mm Krupp and 305mm Austrian "Slim Emmas", why were thes guns such a spectacular failure to perform as they had against Belgian forts?

        John Terraine postulate that much German damage on forts in Belgium was actually achieved by dynamiting AFTEr the garrison surrendered.

        Either way, not a single French fort was "cracked open" to my knowledge in the spectacular and well publicised 'fashion' that the performance of these field pieces in Belgium was an expectaion of.

        Anyone have anything on this? Looking at aerial shots of forts like douamont or vaux, its plain to see the siege artillery failed miserable. Were French forts constructed differently? Were Belgian fortress defenders far more likely to give up the fort, (even considering the Fall of douamont to 25 German Brandenburgers, idly picking their way through during a 'lull' and finding the fort defended by not that many french soldiers at all.

        Drusus
        My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

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        • #5
          Hey...

          Perhaps we could call you "Vaux Chat" for this post!

          Little joke from a non French speaker.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Drusus Nero View Post
            VC...my bloody computer wont let me view these pics. Pity. good Verdun pics are quite hard to find.

            One thing i must ask about artillery at Verdun. Why, with the German deployment of their larger field artillery (420mm Krupp and 305mm Austrian "Slim Emmas", why were thes guns such a spectacular failure to perform as they had against Belgian forts?

            John Terraine postulate that much German damage on forts in Belgium was actually achieved by dynamiting AFTEr the garrison surrendered.

            Either way, not a single French fort was "cracked open" to my knowledge in the spectacular and well publicised 'fashion' that the performance of these field pieces in Belgium was an expectaion of.

            Anyone have anything on this? Looking at aerial shots of forts like douamont or vaux, its plain to see the siege artillery failed miserable. Were French forts constructed differently? Were Belgian fortress defenders far more likely to give up the fort, (even considering the Fall of douamont to 25 German Brandenburgers, idly picking their way through during a 'lull' and finding the fort defended by not that many french soldiers at all.

            Drusus
            The Belgian forts were victims of government cost cutting. Their concrete was poured in stages with a layer added after the previous one had hardened this is cheaper than pouring it all at once but produces comparatively weaker structures. At the time this did not appear to matter as they were certainly still proof against the largest siege artillery available when they were built. However by 1914 the Big Berthas were available. These were specifically aimed at breaching the Belgian forts and it is possible that the reason why Germany had co operated in defusing Balkan tensions in 1913 but did not do so in 1914 was that they were not ready to attempt a move through Belgium until those guns were available. AFAIK the concrete in the French forts was poured in one continuous process and was much stronger

            The report by the Belgian commander at Liege to the Belgian King makes it plain that his fort's concrete was penetrated and the magazines exploded. The remaining forts then capitulated before the guns were moved to fire on them.
            Last edited by MarkV; 19 Feb 16, 06:23.
            Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
            Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by VieuxChat View Post
              Thanks, great pics.

              Comment


              • #8
                More stuff, but in french;

                About Verdun:

                http://www.france24.com/fr/france/20...ataille-verdun

                About the first world war;

                http://www.france24.com/fr/europe/20...ations-dossier


                If you read french I invite you t o read this, this is moving;

                http://www.france24.com/fr/20140213-...sans-habitants
                "To hell wars Grudges and parties ! As our fathers Sing in real friends, The clink of glasses Roses and lilies. The clink of glasses Roses and lilies."

                Comment


                • #9
                  We can use the translator, surely, Mon Vieux>

                  What exactly does Vieuxchat mean anyway?

                  I can translate Chat, but Vieux?

                  A question i do have for the Frenchmen, is Verdun still viewed as a national watershed? Or has modern restructuring of the many myths and heros that came out of this appalling battle done its work?

                  It certainly wormed its way into the collective French and German psyche. I don't think the Germans had ever seen a battle quite like it before or since. And neither had the French, with deep scarring that seems to have contributed greatly to the "Maginot spiirit" and to the 1940 occurrances.

                  whats your considered view as to the modern Frenchman's 'take' on the battle?
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                  • #10
                    Oh right...Vieux is French for "Old".

                    One is as young as one feels. mon ami!

                    Could we have a picture of Bridget Bardot on your avatar instead?
                    My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

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                    • #11
                      I visited Verdun in August of 2014. From what I saw of the damage to the forts they were pretty much a death trap. There were several rooms with monuments to German soldiers that were killed in the French shelling in the attacks leading up to the retaking of the forts.

                      I'd love to post some of the pics but need to upload them to photobucket first.

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                      • #12
                        The French expeneded much effort to recapture Forts like Douamont and Vaux.

                        Sometimes they were death traps.

                        At other times they made great islands of shelter from the storm of steel outside. A place to pause before jumping off for the next assault, or a place to shelter your wounded before the stretecher bearers could pick their way through the mud and steel storm, and inch the casualty back to a better point to the rear for treatment.

                        I believe the French finally retook Douamont after many noticeable attacks that failed through sheer inability to get down below and into the fort itself. One attack was set in motion when an internal explosion killed many Germans occupying Douamont, but hat particular attack was beaten back, when French Morrocan troops got stuck on the outer roof and were unable to enter.

                        Vaux, for instance, really only surrendered when the garrison ran out of drinking water. The men of the French garrison were licking the walls to gather condensation. Vaux was nightmarish, with hand to hand encounters fought in pitch darkness, lit up by flamenwerfer and rifle flashes.

                        When I go to Verdun, Vaux will be my main point of interest. And Souville, and a long look at Douamont.

                        The Ossiary will be nightmareish as well, but I feel, curiously divirced from the field, as it IS a modern construction. My wife will probably not let me take pictures of the bones piled up there anyway.

                        I have a picture that is worth a thousand other essays from Verdun. Its a shot of a Frenchman standing beside what looks to be, and is, a pile of bodies over his head on a hill called "Le Mort Homme"

                        "Le Mort Homme"..."Cote 304"...these hills meant many sleepless nights for the minds of veterans who survived this gigantic contest of endurance.
                        My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

                        Soviet Submarines in WW2....The Mythology of Shiloh....(Edited) Both Sides of the Warsaw Ghetto
                        GULAG Glossary....Who Really Killed The Red Baron?....Pearl Harbor At 75
                        Lincoln-Douglas Debates

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                        • #13
                          Could we have a picture of Bridget Bardot on your avatar instead?


                          "Le Mort Homme"..."Cote 304"...these hills meant many sleepless nights for the minds of veterans who survived this gigantic contest of endurance.
                          Well said. One of my ancetsors who fought at Verdun definitely stop believing in god "one day under a shelling".
                          "To hell wars Grudges and parties ! As our fathers Sing in real friends, The clink of glasses Roses and lilies. The clink of glasses Roses and lilies."

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                          • #14
                            Thanks G!

                            From, G
                            SPORTS FREAK/ PANZERBLITZ COMMANDER/ CC2 COMMANDER

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Drusus Nero View Post
                              VC...my bloody computer wont let me view these pics. Pity. good Verdun pics are quite hard to find.

                              One thing i must ask about artillery at Verdun. Why, with the German deployment of their larger field artillery (420mm Krupp and 305mm Austrian "Slim Emmas", why were thes guns such a spectacular failure to perform as they had against Belgian forts?

                              John Terraine postulate that much German damage on forts in Belgium was actually achieved by dynamiting AFTEr the garrison surrendered.

                              Either way, not a single French fort was "cracked open" to my knowledge in the spectacular and well publicised 'fashion' that the performance of these field pieces in Belgium was an expectaion of.

                              Anyone have anything on this? Looking at aerial shots of forts like douamont or vaux, its plain to see the siege artillery failed miserable. Were French forts constructed differently? Were Belgian fortress defenders far more likely to give up the fort, (even considering the Fall of douamont to 25 German Brandenburgers, idly picking their way through during a 'lull' and finding the fort defended by not that many french soldiers at all.

                              Drusus
                              Further to this read Fortress Ian V Hogg PP 118 -120 which quotes contemporary witnesses. It is very clear from these that Terraine's postulate is wholly incorrect. Also a German engineer inspecting the forts remains reports that contractors had been corrupt and supplied inferior materials
                              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                              Comment

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