Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Can anyone tell me about this intarweb meme.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Can anyone tell me about this intarweb meme.

    Can anyone discount, verify, or tell me more about this?


  • #2
    Looks like that ditty was put out on the internet by Uberfacts who tweet interesting facts. One source decided to fact check the 64 facts that they put out on twitter in one day and the result was: "38 were true 11 were false and 15 were partially true or highly debatable — what I'm calling true-ish."

    Here is an example of a false Uberfact:

    "27. Jagermeister was originally intended to be a cough medicine.

    False. Jagermeister was first concocted around 1935 as a digestif. Some people think it tastes like cough medicine, which is what keeps this inaccurate fun fact alive."

    http://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/uberf...ies-1541956164

    Comment


    • #3
      From the following article:
      The Haversack Ruse In Gaza Impressed Even Lawrence Of Arabia:
      In addition, during the preparations for the Third Battle of Gaza, Meinertzhagen learned from captured Turkish soldiers that there was an acute shortage of tobacco in their units. Meinertzhagen then arranged for the British airplanes that dropped propaganda leaflets over the enemy trenches every night to also drop packages of cigarettes as an enticement to surrender. This seeming act of benevolence was leading up to a coup de grâce in which, immediately before the Third Battle of Gaza, the cigarettes dropped on the tobacco-hungry Turks would contain Meinertzhagen’s own special blend of tobacco and opium.

      Allenby deprecated this act as being too close to poisoning the enemy, but Meinertzhagen did it anyway, believing any action to save friendly lives was justified. After the battle, Meinertzhagen sampled one of his own opium-laden cigarettes, and observed that “they were indeed strong. The effect was sublime, complete abandonment, all energy gone, lovely dreams and complete inability to act or think.” Although the definite effect of this ploy cannot be ascertained, it has been recorded that after being captured on November 6, many of the Turks appeared lethargic, “befuddled,” and “barely coherent.” All of Meinertzhagen’s imaginative acts of deception and subterfuge contributed to the overall success of the Palestine campaign.
      Meinertzhagen is Richard Meinertzhagen, a larger than life character and stretcher of the truth.

      It is noted in a footnote to British Military Intelligence in the Palestine Campaign, 1914-1918 by Yigal Sheffy that Meinertzhagen's account of this event "has thus far not been authenticated elsewhere" [Sheffy p 178 footnote #27] so it seems to mostly like be one of Meinertzhagen's tall tales.
      Last edited by CarpeDiem; 27 Jan 16, 16:53.

      Comment


      • #4
        It's actually not a bad smoke.


        Um, I'm told that, anyway.
        Hyperwar: World War II on the World Wide Web
        Hyperwar, Whats New
        World War II Resources
        The best place in the world to "work".

        Comment


        • #5
          To have any major effect you'd have to drop an awful lot of cigarettes (a few doped up soldiers out of the thousands involved would not be crucial) and they would all need to be dropped just before the crucial action - which would raise the following questions
          • where did Meinertzhagen get all the opium from?
          • who rolled all the cigarettes?
          • wouldn't a mass cigarette drop cause just a smidgen of suspicion on the Turkish side?


          Writing a recent essay on the Palestine campaign I came across quite a few interesting snippets of info from Meinertzhagen but most could not be used as I could find nothing to corroborate them from anyone else.
          Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
          Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

          Comment


          • #6
            Isn't Opium just like it's heroin derivative in the sense that you need to have a certain amount in your system before "withdrawl" takes place, or even be affected?

            Marijuana is similar. The first few times you smoke it, there is no appreciable affect, until the body "tolerance" to it is at a certain level.....or so I've heard.

            Heroin is not an instant addiction process, so niether would opium be.

            I've a funny feeling this story is just a clever story with no basis whatsoever. The fact that Mark could not find any corroboration for this or any other tall tales from Meinerhetzhagen leads me to believe it's just another story.


            As for Opium's effect on fighting soldiers generally, tell that to generations of Chinese warlords, who would pay their troops in opium, use it for medical purposes, and manage to run entire campaigns without any loss of effectiveness to the fighting qualities of their troops.

            Or so I'm told.....
            My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

            Soviet Submarines in WW2....The Mythology of Shiloh....(Edited) Both Sides of the Warsaw Ghetto
            GULAG Glossary....Who Really Killed The Red Baron?....Pearl Harbor At 75
            Lincoln-Douglas Debates

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Drusus Nero View Post
              Isn't Opium just like it's heroin derivative in the sense that you need to have a certain amount in your system before "withdrawl" takes place, or even be affected?
              Opium is a straightforward dose = effect. You may be misremembering that long term use requires a higher and higher dose to achieve the same effect. First several uses are pretty much X milligrams per Y kilograms of body weight to get that effect. After a period of use, X will slowly increase.

              A standard carton nowadays holds 200 in 10 packs. Those 2000 opium laced cigarettes would have a significant effect on a regiment if smoked just before an attack. Cigarettes of that period were roughly the sam as Camel unfiltered today - 70mm long and 9mm diameter. Packets of two would be roughly 71mm x 20mm x 10mm, so a square tube 710mm (29.3 inches) by 160mm square (6.2 inches) would hold 10 x 8 x 16 = 1280 packets or 2560 cigarettes. One under each wing would be able to drop a little more than 5000, so a mere four planes dropping these things would provide enough to impact an entire division. Even if there's a 75% loss rate, a regmient sized number of men could be affected.

              Egypt had a solid cigarette manufacturing industry at this time. The top companies produced more than 347 million cigarettes in 1901. Making 100 "special" cigarettes for the war effort would be trivial. More time would be spent changing the "tobacco" feed to and from opium laced than the actual manufacture.

              Doesn't address whether or not this actually occured, but it is well within the local capabilities.

              Comment


              • #8
                If the average Turkish soldier was like me , the English army would had a very good time.
                Every time I have smocked dope ,I was sleeping 5 minutes after...
                That rug really tied the room together

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by NoPref View Post
                  Opium is a straightforward dose = effect. You may be misremembering that long term use requires a higher and higher dose to achieve the same effect. First several uses are pretty much X milligrams per Y kilograms of body weight to get that effect. After a period of use, X will slowly increase.

                  A standard carton nowadays holds 200 in 10 packs. Those 2000 opium laced cigarettes would have a significant effect on a regiment if smoked just before an attack. Cigarettes of that period were roughly the sam as Camel unfiltered today - 70mm long and 9mm diameter. Packets of two would be roughly 71mm x 20mm x 10mm, so a square tube 710mm (29.3 inches) by 160mm square (6.2 inches) would hold 10 x 8 x 16 = 1280 packets or 2560 cigarettes. One under each wing would be able to drop a little more than 5000, so a mere four planes dropping these things would provide enough to impact an entire division. Even if there's a 75% loss rate, a regmient sized number of men could be affected.

                  Egypt had a solid cigarette manufacturing industry at this time. The top companies produced more than 347 million cigarettes in 1901. Making 100 "special" cigarettes for the war effort would be trivial. More time would be spent changing the "tobacco" feed to and from opium laced than the actual manufacture.

                  Doesn't address whether or not this actually occured, but it is well within the local capabilities.
                  Given that the account reproduced in a number of modern publications says Meinertzhagen dropped them all in person (ie it was a one man operation) my questions still stand
                  Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                  Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks gents. Sounds like it is apocryphal.

                    Comment

                    Latest Topics

                    Collapse

                    • Karri
                      Prawn heads
                      by Karri
                      How do you cook them? How do you eat them?

                      So far I've always just twisted them off, and discarded it along with the shells and such, only...
                      Today, 11:40
                    • Jose50
                      Thoughts on the US abandoning NATO
                      by Jose50
                      Now may be a good time for the NATO countries to start beefing up their materiel, personnel and alliances. There is a decided wave here in the US that...
                      Today, 08:41
                    • Von Richter
                      Sagittarius Rising...
                      by Von Richter
                      Just having a re-read of this book after it's stood for donkey's years on the bookshelf. Once again, within the first couple of pages, I'm transported...
                      Today, 01:19
                    Working...
                    X