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  • Walrus-class replacement program

    Three subs have been narrowed down to replace the Walrus class.

    Their wishlist of what the sub should be capable of doing might come up short I feel. I suspect the Barracuda could be a strong contender.

    Minister Bijleveld also underlined in an interview that the new submarines should have the same niche capabilities as the current walrus-class submarines. This means that they have to be able to operate, and gather intelligence, in both shallow water close to the coast and in deep water in the ocean. And fast transit to the Dutch Antilles.
    The Ministry of Defence has shortlisted three bidders:
    • Damen Group and Saab Group announced that they have teamed up from 2015 to jointly develop, offer and build next-generation submarines that are able to replace the current Walrus-class submarines of the Royal Netherlands Navy. It was unveiled on 1 June 2018 that the design will be derived from the A26 submarine. The proposed submarine is currently around 73 meter long and has a diameter of 8 meter. Furthermore, the weight will be around 2900 ton and it complements 34 to 42 people. When it comes to armament the boat has 6 torpedo tubes and 1 Multi Mission Lock which can be used to drop of special forces.
    • Naval Group announced that it is offering its newest submarine class, the Barracuda-class submarine, as replacement for the current "Walrus-class" submarines of the Royal Netherlands Navy. A version of the "Shortfin" diesel-electric variant Barracuda-class submarines will be offered, and not the nuclear variant that the French Navy is using.
    • ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems is planning to offer a Type 212CD submarine.

    Spain's Navantia was not accepted as a bidder.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walrus...ine#Contenders

    "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
    Ernest Hemingway.

  • #2
    The Netherlands is currently in the process of deciding on a replacement for their frigates. With only 4 subs to be replaced, if they want a "custom" design, the costs will be outrageous. I think that they should go with an off-the-shelf design with only minimal upgrades. I'd vote for the Type 212. I know that Germany and Norway have slightly different needs but this could turn into a 20 year gold-plated debacle that ends up with nothing. Fast transit to the Antilles seems like an unneeded want.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by johns624 View Post
      The Netherlands is currently in the process of deciding on a replacement for their frigates. With only 4 subs to be replaced, if they want a "custom" design, the costs will be outrageous. I think that they should go with an off-the-shelf design with only minimal upgrades. I'd vote for the Type 212. I know that Germany and Norway have slightly different needs but this could turn into a 20 year gold-plated debacle that ends up with nothing. Fast transit to the Antilles seems like an unneeded want.
      Unless consideration is being given to urgent refueling and repair that cannot be obtained in home ports for tactical reasons.

      Always have a Plan B.
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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      • #4
        Well, one thing that the Dutch may be anticipating is that the United States may not be world Hegemon before this new class is out of service. Without the US Navy holding what was once Britannia's banner ruling the waves, the oceans become a much more 'fluid' environment. In those circumstances, the Dutch might feel that there could be a little more 'every nation for itself' in play, which would mean that they would need to be able to transit from home waters to any foreign waters without necessarily having friendly fuel stops and such to use.
        Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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        • #5
          Fast transit to the Antilles was a surprise for me while reading this story, and on the surface it seems to be a requirement that a sub might have limited duties.
          https://english.defensie.nl/topics/c.../defence-tasks


          From another link...

          As the book In Deepest Secrecy: Dutch Submarine Espionage Operations from 1968 to 1991, made public, Dutch submarines were mainly active in the Norwegian Sea and the Mediterranean Sea during the Cold War. Those patrols often lasted for six weeks. The experience with long-distance patrols, which arose from the need for submarines in the former Dutch East Indies and later the need for diesel-electric submarines in European waters after the Second World War, is cherished by the RNLN.

          Less is known about the deployment of Dutch submarines after the Cold War, but it is certain that the WALRUS Class was deployed quite frequently. Those deployments also took place in areas many thousands of kilometres from the Den Helder home port. For example, a WALRUS Class submarine was tasked with gathering intelligence about the Iranian Navy in the Persian Gulf, another one with intelligence collection about pirates in the Indian Ocean and during another deployment included an intelligence mission about drug transports in the Caribbean.
          https://euro-sd.com/2019/05/articles...ent-programme/
          "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
          Ernest Hemingway.

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          • #6
            And with Venezuela acting up recently, it could be rather important to be able to transit to the Caribbean. Plus, a sub like this would be more effective than a Virginia in the shallow, clear, and fairly even bottomed Caribbean sea.
            Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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            • #7
              Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
              And with Venezuela acting up recently, it could be rather important to be able to transit to the Caribbean. Plus, a sub like this would be more effective than a Virginia in the shallow, clear, and fairly even bottomed Caribbean sea.
              Just send a German cruise ship. That'll take care of their navy.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by johns624 View Post

                Just send a German cruise ship. That'll take care of their navy.
                Well, plenty of cruise ships aren't in use at the moment. I wonder if Carnival would declare war on Venezuela and handle the problem
                Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post

                  Well, plenty of cruise ships aren't in use at the moment. I wonder if Carnival would declare war on Venezuela and handle the problem
                  You don't want one of their big ships. Too many Venezuelans would be trying to jump onboard to get out of their schithole.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Achtung Baby View Post
                    "Spain's Navantia was not accepted as a bidder."
                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walrus...ine#Contenders
                    Was any particular reason given as to why Navantia was not accepted as a bidder?
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Herman Hum View Post
                      Was any particular reason given as to why Navantia was not accepted as a bidder?
                      Not exactly sure yet, but from what I can find Navantia failed to make the cut on the industrial cooperation front. The Dutch felt cooperation between the two nations wouldn't be as favourable to the buyer.

                      Anyway, here's some links about Navantia. The second link is more of an embarrassment for them.

                      https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...hnlms-ss-x.htm



                      https://o.canada.com/news/spain-buil...tons-too-heavy
                      "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                      Ernest Hemingway.

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