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Russian naval power, and power projection

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  • Russian naval power, and power projection

    just curious after thinking about some stuff.

    how capable would russia be of a prolonged naval mission in the Caribbean based on making sure outside forces leave Venezuela alone, or other such reasoning?
    how large of a naval presence could they keep on station long term? how large of a presence could they surge if they wanted to or felt the need, all while keeping in mind their commitments in syria and the Mediterranean?

    what would such a task force be likely to look like?
    Last edited by General_Jacke; 16 Aug 19, 19:15.
    the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

    A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
    A man dies and leaves his name,
    A teacher dies and teaches death.
    Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

  • #2
    Look at how much trouble they had supporting the Kuznetsov. They haven't built anything larger than a frigate in 30 years, except for a few Udaloys that are an older design. I don't think any deployment they tried would impress anyone.
    To put it in perspective, their newest destroyers are as old as our oldest Burkes, but are of an earlier design.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by johns624 View Post
      Look at how much trouble they had supporting the Kuznetsov. They haven't built anything larger than a frigate in 30 years, except for a few Udaloys that are an older design. I don't think any deployment they tried would impress anyone.
      To put it in perspective, their newest destroyers are as old as our oldest Burkes, but are of an earlier design.
      frigate doesn't convey size considering some european frigates would are 7,000+ tons if i'm not mistaken.
      (the gorshkov is pushing what most would consider DDG territory in size at 5400tons full load)

      that being said, their capability to build massive large ships doesn't really have anything to do with their capability to support a strike group or task force deployed else where.

      that being said, while it may not impress you, i'm sure plenty of people would have plenty to say about a Slava, a pair of Udaloys, the Gorshkov, and an oiler hanging out in the Caribbean for more than a few days.
      the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

      A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
      A man dies and leaves his name,
      A teacher dies and teaches death.
      Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

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      • #4
        Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post

        frigate doesn't convey size considering some european frigates would are 7,000+ tons if i'm not mistaken.
        (the gorshkov is pushing what most would consider DDG territory in size at 5400tons full load)

        that being said, their capability to build massive large ships doesn't really have anything to do with their capability to support a strike group or task force deployed else where.

        that being said, while it may not impress you, i'm sure plenty of people would have plenty to say about a Slava, a pair of Udaloys, the Gorshkov, and an oiler hanging out in the Caribbean for more than a few days.
        Once again, you miss the point. With ships that old, with their lack of maintenance, I'm not sure that they could keep those ships on station in the Caribbean. With your list of ships, you forgot the tugboats. You also forget that one or two USN SSNs nearby could take them out whenever it wanted.

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        • #5
          The base on the island of La Orchila is more likely just to accommodate Russian strategic bombers rather than much in the way of naval presence. I think it's more of a semi permanent base just in case things don't work out in the long term.
          Is Russia still interested in staying at Cam Ranh Bay in Vietnam?
          "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
          Ernest Hemingway.

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          • #6
            I think the Vietnamese are trying to replace the Russians with the American Navy. We do tend to make port calls there. It beats going up the Mekong or Red Rivers.

            Pruitt
            Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

            Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

            by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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            • #7
              Originally posted by johns624 View Post

              Once again, you miss the point. With ships that old, with their lack of maintenance, I'm not sure that they could keep those ships on station in the Caribbean. With your list of ships, you forgot the tugboats. You also forget that one or two USN SSNs nearby could take them out whenever it wanted.
              what lack of maintenance? as far as i'm aware the russian navy has had an appropriate level of maintenance for most of their ships since 2010 or so. it's not the 90's or early 00s any more.

              theoretically a few russian SSNs nearby could take out any of our task groups/strike groups, but that doesn't stop us from sending them out.
              Last edited by General_Jacke; 17 Aug 19, 16:34.
              the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

              A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
              A man dies and leaves his name,
              A teacher dies and teaches death.
              Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post
                what lack of maintenance? as far as i'm aware the russian navy has had an appropriate level of maintenance for most of their ships since 2010 or so. it's not the 90's or early 00s any more.

                theoretically a few russian SSNs nearby could take out any of our task groups/strike groups, but that doesn't stop us from sending them out.
                It didnít look good seeing their carrier belching smoke as it crossed the English Channel on its way to Syria.
                "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                Ernest Hemingway.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Achtung Baby View Post

                  It didnít look good seeing their carrier belching smoke as it crossed the English Channel on its way to Syria.
                  I mean that ship has always belched smoke as far as Iím aware.

                  any other recent examples?
                  the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

                  A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
                  A man dies and leaves his name,
                  A teacher dies and teaches death.
                  Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The latest issue of Warship IFR (Sep 19) has an article (p 14) of a Russian Kashin-class destroyer that disrupted a NATO livefire exercise in the Black Sea while belching smoke out of its funnel.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                      The latest issue of Warship IFR (Sep 19) has an article (p 14) of a Russian Kashin-class destroyer that disrupted a NATO livefire exercise in the Black Sea while belching smoke out of its funnel.
                      that sounds like the russian navy just being trolly lol
                      but considering the ages on some of those ships the fact that they're still out and about at all seems like a testament to the maintenance they've gotten.
                      the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

                      A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
                      A man dies and leaves his name,
                      A teacher dies and teaches death.
                      Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The issue is that the carrier is fueled by mazut, a fuel that very few countries now provide. Thus itís constrained by its own range and the lack of foreign ports that can refuel it.
                        "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                        Ernest Hemingway.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Achtung Baby View Post
                          The issue is that the carrier is fueled by mazut, a fuel that very few countries now provide. Thus itís constrained by its own range and the lack of foreign ports that can refuel it.
                          they don't have to send a carrier to send a task group though, so with due to weird fuel, its almost guaranteed their carrier wouldn't be coming out here.

                          so what could they realistically send, how long could they realistically keep it on station?
                          the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

                          A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
                          A man dies and leaves his name,
                          A teacher dies and teaches death.
                          Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post

                            so what could they realistically send, how long could they realistically keep it on station?
                            A couple of us have said it wasn't really possible but you disagree, so why don't you do some research and tell us. You could start by finding out how many out-of-area deployments the Russian navy has done in the last 5 years, what ships were involved and how long they lasted. We'll be waiting...

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                              A couple of us have said it wasn't really possible but you disagree, so why don't you do some research and tell us. You could start by finding out how many out-of-area deployments the Russian navy has done in the last 5 years, what ships were involved and how long they lasted. We'll be waiting...
                              so it's possible for them to send a pair of ships to circumnavigate the globe, but you don't think it's possible for them to operate off the coast of a friendly nation for a few weeks?

                              and what exactly do you define as an out of area deployment? i've sure you won't be counting syria and the Med since they're near the black sea, despite several ships based in the north of russia being deployed to syria, a trip of around 6000miles or so...(varyag, Kuznetsov, peyotr velikiy, 2 udaloys, marshall ustinov, all came from the black sea fleet, meaning they all did 'out of area deployments' from their homeport)

                              in the late 2000's the russian navy did deploy to venezuela for a bit to conduct joint drills with the venezuelan navy. a kirov class and an udaloy


                              just slightly out side your 5 year timeframe, but i know in Feb 2015 they had at least one vessel not far from VA, and i also know that they've conducted piracy patrols off the horn of africa, don't know if they've done any in the last 5 years or not specifically, but i also know that while i was on antipiracy patrols i personally saw two russian warships apparently escorting a convoy of merchant ships, again, in early-mid 2014

                              not sure why you're trying to put such strict limits on the time frame and using such vague wording other than trying to artificially stack the data set.
                              Last edited by General_Jacke; 19 Aug 19, 17:51.
                              the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

                              A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
                              A man dies and leaves his name,
                              A teacher dies and teaches death.
                              Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

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