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  • Why doesnt the UK export more warships?

    This is something that i have a hard time understanding, and i am hoping many of my esteemed English friends on this forum can have a say on this. The Royal Navy remains one of the worlds finest, and they are backed by a wonderfully gifted and innovative shipbuilding industries left in the world. Now the Royal Navy wouldnt accept any old rubbish , and the demands they place on their shipbuilders are indeed immense. the fact that most times they succed is a great credit to them , as they provide some of the most potent and well intergrated warships in the world. So...

    ..Why arent half the worlds navies using these ships? If you consider the value of the 2 massive arms deals signed with the Saudis over the past 15 years, you certainly have no problem with marketing your weapon systems successfully, so why noy your naval warships? I believe you are potentially sitting on a gold mine of untapped riches for both your people and your country, so...please explain?

  • #2
    Our ship buiolding industries have been largley lost in the last half cerntury certainly in terms of civilian ship building. These two new aircraft carriers in 2012 are the bigget thing to happen to the navy for a long long time.However at the same time the surface fleet has been trashed (its now smaller than the French ) whilst currently having no top cover capability. We've hardly built anything for ourselves lately nevermind anyone else.

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    • #3
      I think it has a lot to do with Rule Americana making the need for British ships seem a little pointless.

      Most British concerns, are about the same as most American concerns, and if the Americans have every intention of an American Carrier group being present, the British having a large fleet ALSO present, likely seems redundant.

      That's really only a guess though.

      But can you argue against it?
      Life is change. Built models for decades.
      Not sure anyone here actually knows the real me.
      I didn't for a long time either.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
        Our ship buiolding industries have been largley lost in the last half cerntury certainly in terms of civilian ship building. These two new aircraft carriers in 2012 are the bigget thing to happen to the navy for a long long time.However at the same time the surface fleet has been trashed (its now smaller than the French ) whilst currently having no top cover capability. We've hardly built anything for ourselves lately nevermind anyone else.
        Sadly, that is the case, and in fact could be the content of a whole new thread, " What the hell is the UK govt doing to its own navy? " , or something like that. However , lets look at some facts; you use indigeniously designed and built warships and subs, you outfit them with defensive and offensive sysetms that are largely home made, and you provide these ships with helicopters. ( EH-101 ), again, locally designed and built. If the UK is not going to invest in its own fleet, then i feel you should be trying to take such expertise and go join this huge arms market that is abounding around the world atm. you guys can offer customers the complete package, ships and helicopters plus support and supplies. I think you would be on a wimmer, if its good enough for the royal navy , then it must be good enough for a vast majority of fleets out there. For christ sake , the Russians just concluded a deal with the Indonesions to sell them some Kilo subs, certainly not cutting edge at all, but the Russians offered some attractive terms and bigo, a military order providing hard currency for their economy. Ir they can pull something like that off, then so can the UK!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by galland
          For christ sake , the Russians just concluded a deal with the Indonesions to sell them some Kilo subs, certainly not cutting edge at all, but the Russians offered some attractive terms and bigo, a military order providing hard currency for their economy. Ir they can pull something like that off, then so can the UK!
          But the Russians haven't exactly kept their naval assets up to the best standards, now have they?

          I am not to sure about this Carrier Building Program they are starting on either.

          Seems like everything they have Naval Wise is either falling apart or has been put to sleep someplace & left to decay.

          Selling subs & other vessels may be the only thing they can do right now to keep their heads above water.

          "Rule Americana".....What an interesting use of verbage.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by galland View Post
            ..Why arent half the worlds navies using these ships?
            Maybe because they can find cheaper deals or don't want to be tricked:

            http://www.guardian.co.uk/armstrade/...796377,00.html

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            • #7
              Theres a lot of politics to consider aswell .The idea of selling new western navy /submarine tech for example to the Indonesians or some dictatorship in South America would not go down to well politically whereas Russian public opinion couldnt give a toss and the ak47's across Africa are testimony to that. Not that its affordble to them but can you imagine the political problems if America or Britain sold that many slr's or m16's to tin pot African war lords. I mean remember all that hoo ha about some bribes over selling hawk trainers to the Saudis. You dont do deals with the Saudis without bribes but the media dont care or too naive to understand.
              Last edited by copenhagen; 07 Sep 07, 08:17.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by galland View Post
                ..Why arent half the worlds navies using these ships? If you consider the value of the 2 massive arms deals signed with the Saudis over the past 15 years, you certainly have no problem with marketing your weapon systems successfully, so why noy your naval warships? I believe you are potentially sitting on a gold mine of untapped riches for both your people and your country, so...please explain?
                Because we don't have any ships, we're getting some really nice new ones in shortly, and as they arrive we'll probably flog off or mothball some of the ships we've got at the moment. However we're not getting enough new vessels in. So while our ship building has decreased in the last 50 years we've still got the ability to make top notch ships. HMS Astute and Daring are two prime examples.

                Originally posted by galland View Post
                " What the hell is the UK govt doing to its own navy? "
                Delete the word Navy, add the words "Armed forces".
                Winnie says
                ---------------------------------
                "He fell out of a Gestapo car, over a bridge, and onto a railway line. Then was run over by the Berlin Express.

                It was an Accident."
                Herr Flick.

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                • #9
                  yeah i agree with listy ... HMS astute is a beautie .. as is HMS daring ...
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by thomas.tmcc View Post
                    yeah i agree with listy ... HMS astute is a beautie .. as is HMS daring ...
                    Now if Only they'd fully equip the Type 45's.
                    Winnie says
                    ---------------------------------
                    "He fell out of a Gestapo car, over a bridge, and onto a railway line. Then was run over by the Berlin Express.

                    It was an Accident."
                    Herr Flick.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In Portsmouth where i live, i can usually see the ships mothballed at the far end of the harbour, among them EXETER, SIR GALAHAD, FEARLESS, INTREPID AND INVINCIBLE, to name a few, and there are many more, a very sad sight of a once mighty navy.
                      Last edited by Post Captain; 07 Sep 07, 13:54.
                      Never Fear the Event

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                      • #12
                        Many of those ships in mothballs appear to be making their way to Chile, especially the Type 23 frigates.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by galland View Post
                          Sadly, that is the case, and in fact could be the content of a whole new thread, " What the hell is the UK govt doing to its own navy? " , or something like that. However , lets look at some facts; you use indigeniously designed and built warships and subs, you outfit them with defensive and offensive sysetms that are largely home made, and you provide these ships with helicopters. ( EH-101 ), again, locally designed and built. If the UK is not going to invest in its own fleet, then i feel you should be trying to take such expertise and go join this huge arms market that is abounding around the world atm. you guys can offer customers the complete package, ships and helicopters plus support and supplies. I think you would be on a wimmer, if its good enough for the royal navy , then it must be good enough for a vast majority of fleets out there. For christ sake , the Russians just concluded a deal with the Indonesions to sell them some Kilo subs, certainly not cutting edge at all, but the Russians offered some attractive terms and bigo, a military order providing hard currency for their economy. Ir they can pull something like that off, then so can the UK!
                          Agreed. At least the UK would get the advantage of some hard cash from foreign sales, while their ship building industries could keep their "hand in" regarding the latest nuances in ship-building.
                          "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

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                          • #14
                            "Agreed. At least the UK would get the advantage of some hard cash from foreign sales, while their ship building industries could keep their "hand in" regarding the latest nuances in ship-building."

                            Agreed but there is one fatal flaw in your argument. You have not taken into account that bastion of odd decision making that is the Ministry of defence.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
                              "Agreed. At least the UK would get the advantage of some hard cash from foreign sales, while their ship building industries could keep their "hand in" regarding the latest nuances in ship-building."

                              Agreed but there is one fatal flaw in your argument. You have not taken into account that bastion of odd decision making that is the Ministry of defence.
                              Hey Copes, mate can you tell me if the shipbuilders in the UK have lobbied the Govt for assistance in things such as exports and the like to keep the production lines going , and a whole lot of very experienced people in work?

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