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  • Japan's Latest "Destroyers"

    Have anyone heard about the latest Japanese 'destroyers'?

    Here's a photo of the 'destroyer' Hyuga.



    Here's an article from globalsecurity.org.

    16DDH "13,500 ton" ton Class

    A proposed "13,500 ton" ton helicopter-carrying destroyer, similar in design to a small aircraft carrier, would provide the Maritime Self-Defence Force with greater capability for force projection. A total of three SH-60J and one MCH-101 will be carried, and it is said to have the capacity to carry MH-53E and as many as 11 aircraft. These new units are intended to replace the Shirane and Haruna classes of Helicopter Destroyers. They are expected to cost 100 billion yen apiece.

    Paragraph 2 of Article 9 of the Constitution provides that "the right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized." The self-defense capability that Japan is permitted to possess is limited to the minimum necessary by the constitutional limitations. However, whether or not the said armed strength corresponds to "war potential" stipulated in paragraph 2 of Article 9 of the Constitution is an issue regarding the total strength that Japan possesses. Accordingly, whether the SDF are allowed to possess some specific armaments depends on the judgment whether its total strength will or will not exceed constitutional limitations by possessing such armaments. But in any case in Japan, it is unconstitutional to possess what is referred to as offensive weapons that, from their performance, are to be used exclusively for total destruction of other countries, since it immediately exceeds the limit of the minimum necessary level of self-defense. Therefore, for instance, the SDF is not allowed to possess ICBMs, long-range strategic bombers or offensive aircraft carriers.

    The first officially released design was a unique configuration that featured forward and aft helicopter pads with a hanger in the center. However, in the end, the design that most fit the JMSDF's need - aircraft carrying capability - was choosen, which strongly resembled a normal aircraft carrier.

    On 15 December 2001, the Japanese Government approved a new mid-term procurement plan for its Self-Defense Forces totaling 25,160 billion yen (US$223.6 billion) over the next five years. The new procurement plan allows the building of two DDH helicopter destroyer. In fact, this kind of ship is a type of light aircraft carrier, with its dead weight reaching 13.5 thousand tons and its gross weight 20,000 tons with fuel, water and weapons, beyond the current patrol vessel. The first of the DDH 13.500ton class ship was approved in 2004 as planned, with the total cost of 116.4 billion yen (US$1.06 billion). The second ship construction was postponed from its original 2005 plan because missile defense and satellite communication network replaced the prioprities.

    Japan has long wanted to develop an aircraft carrier. As early as 1983, Japan called for the building of a 20,000-ton aircraft carrier, which could carry 20 helicopters or 20 VTOL Sea Harriers. This was not realized owing to opposition from the United States. The US Navy strongly opposed to the plan, and urged Japan to build more destroyers instead. The U.S. Navy had enough flattops to counter the Soviet Navy but lacked destroyers. The MSDF's plan to own a light flattop raised Washington's eyebrow, apparently taken as a subcontractor attempting to strike out on its own.

    That did not daunt the Defense Agency or the MSDF. In a Diet budget session in April 1988, then Defense Agency chief Tsutomu Kawara replied, "The Self-Defense Forces are not allowed to possess ICBMs (intercontinental ballistic missile), strategic bombers, or attack aircraft carriers." Until the 1970s in the US Navy, large-scale flattops had been categorized as "attack aircraft carriers" and small flattops as "antisubmarine aircraft carriers." Prohibition of having attack aircraft carries can be taken to mean allowing possession of small aircraft carriers.

    With the decline of Russian naval strength, the Self- Defense Forces’ fighting vessels and aircraft rank second in the world, behind the United States. However, the Self-Defense Forces still maintain an ambition to develop an aircraft carrier and nuclear submarine. It is said that the plan to build DDH helicopter destroyer is actually another demonstration of such ambition.

    Mention of a light aircraft carrier was first made in the 2001-2005 National Defense Buildup Program Outline (Mid-term Program) that was approved by the Cabinet in December 2000. According to a designer's concept shown by the agency in December 2000, the vessel's bridge was located amidships to bisect the flight deck-a ship design that was effectively identical to its predecessor. But when it became time for the fiscal 2004 budget request in August 2003, the agency came up with a completely new drawing, which showed the bridge on starboard to create a through deck-a design of none other than an aircraft carrier. The agency, however, insists that since this vessel is just an expanded model of any conventional flagship DDH, it ought to be categorized as such.

    The fiscal 2004 defence budget gave the JMSDF (Japanese Maritime Defence Force) the largest warship Japan has had since the disappearance of its Imperial Navy. Projected to be built starting in 2004 was a 13,500-ton helicopter destroyer (DDH) code-named 16DDH (16 as in the 16th year of the Heisei emperor in the Japanese calendar), with another planned for 2005. The 16DDH in JSDF classification is by no means an aircraft carrier. Its characteristic shape, however, is nothing but. Having a displacement of about 20,000 tons when equipment and fuel are counted in, they essentially can be classified as light aircraft carriers. It is temporizing to refer to this type of vessel as a DD (destroyer). There has never been a destroyer that exceeded 10,000 tons.

    It is almost as large as the Imperial Japanese Navy's Tone class heavy cruisers. It matches in size modern small aircraft carriers as Italy's MM Giuseppe Garibaldi (10,100 tons) and Spain's Principe de Asturia (17,188 tons). In terms of displacement, the two destroyers -- not nuclear-powered -- will be in the class of Britain's Invincible, a 20,600-ton light flattop, when they are fully loaded with fuel.

    The two large-scale destroyers will replace the Haruna and the Hiei (both about 5,000 tons) that will be out of service in 2008 and 2009, respectively. The Defense Agency formally refers to them as the DDH (helicopter destroyer) follow-on mode. The Defense Agency says that in order to simultaneously operate four MH53E jumbo helicopters that are capable of carrying up to 55 people, the displacement of the ships will reach about 13,500 tons. They are equipped with a sonar and ASROC anti-submarine missiles, along with the MK 15 Phalanx CIWS (Close In Weapon System) and 16 MK 41 VLS (Vertical Launch System).

    IHI Marine United (IHIMU), Japan’s leading shipbuilding company, received an order for the DDH from the Japan Defense Agency. The new DDH will be one of the largest naval ships in Japan, with a displacement of 13,500 tons. The first ship is expected to be completed in March 2009. The DDH that IHIMU received an order for this time will be the largest operational naval ship in Japan with a staff of more than 350. Its equipment density will be many times more than that of commercial ships. There will be four helo landing spots on an axial flight deck and supposedly it will carry three SH-60 Seahawk variants for ASW and an EH-101 Merlin for mine warfare.

    In early 2005 Mitsubishi Electric Corporation (Melco) of Japan and Thales Nederland signed a contract for the delivery of a Thales missile control module that will be incorporated in Melco's new FCS-3 radar. The missile control module will add Thales Nederland's revolutionary ICWI technology to the FCS-3 radar. This radar will be installed on the 16DDH, the first of a new class of helicopter carriers for the Japanese Maritime Self-Defence Force.

    ICWI (Interrupted Continuous Wave Illumination) is a technology that enables a missile control system to guide several missiles simultaneously to various threats, greatly enhancing a ship's defence capabilities. The performance of ICWI-based missile defence systems was convincingly demonstrated during the live firing trials of the Royal Netherlands Navy's "De Zeven Provinciën" late 2003 and the live firing trials of the German Navy's "Sachsen" mid 2004. Both ships are equipped with APAR, Thales' highly advanced multifunction radar, especially designed to guide ESSM and SM2 missiles to incoming threats.

    With this contract the history of co-operation between Melco and Thales Nederland continues. About twenty years ago the companies already worked together on Thales' well-known WM25 fire control radar. Thales Nederland is proud to continue this relationship through its state-of-the-art ICWI and APAR technology. Both Melco and Thales expect that their good relationship will be strengthened by further co-operation in the future.

    In May 2005 GE Transportation's marine gas turbine business announced it will supply Ishikawajima-Harima Heavy Industries, Co. Ltd. (IHI) with four GE LM2500 aeroderivative gas turbines. The engines will power the first of a new class of Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force's (JMSDF) helicopter-carrying destroyers. The first vessel will be know as the 16DDH, and it is anticipated that at least one additional DDH destroyer will be built in the coming years. The 13,500-ton DDH destroyer will use two propulsion trains, each consisting of two LM2500s in a COmbined Gas turbine And Gas turbine configuration (COGAG), driving a propeller through a gearbox. The engines will each provide 25,000 shaft horsepower.

    "The “16DDH”-class ship has attracted significant media and Diet attention, owing to its resemblance to an aircraft carrier.75 The vessel’s design features a starboard-side island superstructure and an uninterrupted flight deck, prompting observers to speculate that Japan may be eyeing a carrier capable of handling Harrier-like aircraft. Notes one analyst, “The configuration of the Osumi and the new DDH class indicates that Japan is rehearsing carrier-building technology to reserve for itself this potential military option; and thus, that it is considering discarding the constitutional prohibition on the acquisition of power-projection capabilities.” In the meantime, the 16DDH would fulfill many of the peacetime and wartime missions elaborated in the NDPG. As a wartime flagship, the 16DDH would serve as a command-and-control platform, coordinating the activities of other units while its organic helicopters conducted ASW operations. During peacetime operations, or “military operations other than war” (MOOTW), the 16DDH would join the Osumi-class ships for peacekeeping and relief operations, as well as the “diverse situations” Japan foresees confronting on the high seas." [Yoshihara & Holmes, Summer 2006]
    If that's a destroyer, I'm a monkey's uncle.
    Last edited by Ogukuo72; 26 Aug 07, 22:03.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Ogukuo72 View Post
    If that's a destroyer, I'm a monkey's uncle.
    Looks like a destroyer to me......you related to Michael?

    The strategy page had an interesting article on this ship.
    As lord and master of your grill, you will welcome any opportunity to display your grilling prowess.
    Mario Batali, 2006

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    • #3
      Originally posted by dhuffjr View Post
      Looks like a destroyer to me......you related to Michael?

      The strategy page had an interesting article on this ship.
      No, but George is a distant relative.

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      • #4
        Looks like a Destroyer hull to me...

        Actually, the term Destroyer was originally in reference to its mission, regards Submarines.

        If the few helos are ASW...

        Enh...

        On the Plains of Hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of victory, sat down to rest-and resting... died. Adlai E. Stevenson

        ACG History Today

        BoRG

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        • #5
          Interesting choice.

          Not really an offensive weapon without sufficient means of sea-control to protect it and allow it to project power ashore. Now add some VTOL F-35s and you'd have a minimal capability.

          I would almost say the Japanese were worried about a submarine threat. You could maintain 24/7 ASW coverage over a good sized area with a set up like this.
          Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

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          • #6
            I like it, it would be a handy piece of equipment for ASW and not having the problems of larger carriers avoiding shallow waters when venturing to smaller ports!

            I doubt STOVL or VTOL could blend in with the mix of helicopters on board, maybe another dedicated "Destroyer" with this function in mind!

            I wonder if this ship will be made available on the global market, it would be nice investment for Australia, working alongside the Spanish Amphibious Assault ships we ordered! STOVL F-35Bs on one boat and a compliment of ASW helicopters on the other!
            "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
            Ernest Hemingway.

            "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
            Mark Twain.

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            • #7
              well if they want some Light Aircraft carriers I know of a couple of Through Deck Cruisers going spare.
              Winnie says
              ---------------------------------
              "He fell out of a Gestapo car, over a bridge, and onto a railway line. Then was run over by the Berlin Express.

              It was an Accident."
              Herr Flick.

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              • #8
                Comparing it with the Principe de Asturias and the Giuseppe Garibaldi, which are also around 13,500 tonnes, the Hyuga might be able to carry as many as 12 to 16 Harriers sized aircraft or helicopters.

                Not enough for any offensive action, but certainly will be a decent enough air wing for convoy and ASW duties.

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                • #9
                  if they are going to call that adestroyer than they should considedr changing the JMSDF to JMSDBNIAWTOADF.


                  ( Japanese Marintine Self Defence But Not In Any Way To Offend Anyone Defence Force . )

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                  • #10
                    Actually it is no different than the Soviets calling their carriers "anti-submarine cruisers". That was so they could build them in the Black Sea and sail them past Istanbul to the Mediterranean Sea. I wish the image could show the elevators! That sucker fully loaded is as big as many of the Japanese World War 2 carriers!

                    Pruitt
                    Last edited by Pruitt; 27 Aug 07, 08:04.
                    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ogukuo72 View Post
                      Have anyone heard about the latest Japanese 'destroyers'?

                      Here's a photo of the 'destroyer' Hyuga.



                      If that's a destroyer, I'm a monkey's uncle.
                      I'm with you. Where's The Destroyer?????

                      All I see is an Aircraft Carrier.

                      If that's a Destroyer, then all I want to know is, where is The Yamato II being Built?????

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                      • #12
                        I suppose it's a logical development. Helicopters are very good at ASW work, and a destroyer is meant to do ASW work. so Put 3 or 4 helicopters on one light ship, slap some Missile systems on for Anti-air and anti shipping and you get a very capable DD.
                        Winnie says
                        ---------------------------------
                        "He fell out of a Gestapo car, over a bridge, and onto a railway line. Then was run over by the Berlin Express.

                        It was an Accident."
                        Herr Flick.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It's all about semantics. Call it an "Escort Carrier" and it might pass Japan's constitutional law as well. And it certainly seems to fulfill the same roll as the "jeep carriers".
                          Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study logistics.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Roadkiller View Post
                            It's all about semantics. Call it an "Escort Carrier" and it might pass Japan's constitutional law as well. And it certainly seems to fulfill the same roll as the "jeep carriers".
                            oh....those Japanese and their cute little euphimism's!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Roadkiller View Post
                              It's all about semantics. Call it an "Escort Carrier" and it might pass Japan's constitutional law as well. And it certainly seems to fulfill the same roll as the "jeep carriers".
                              I thought they got rid of that part of the law? I'm sure something about it was mentioned last year, where htey Voted to change that.
                              Winnie says
                              ---------------------------------
                              "He fell out of a Gestapo car, over a bridge, and onto a railway line. Then was run over by the Berlin Express.

                              It was an Accident."
                              Herr Flick.

                              Comment

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