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  • Vikramaditya completes 1st builders trials

    http://www.thehindu.com/news/interna...cle3958345.ece

    Apparently the trials are a success. The boiler problem is considered overblown by the media although some delays likely.



    The controversial sea trials of the INS Vikramaditya in Russia, initially described as an embarrassing failure, appear to have actually been a success, while propulsion problems developed by the aircraft carrier are not nearly as serious as reported in the media.

    After the ship returned to the Sevmash shipyard a week ago the Indian Navyís overseeing team, who closely monitored the sea trials, came to the conclusion that the ship had overall done extremely well and the programme of tests had been largely fulfilled.

    The results of the trials were analysed and remaining work was detailed in a protocol signed by Vice Admiral Nadella Niranjan Kumar, Controller Warship Production and Acquisition (CWPA).

    The main conclusion from the trials is that the INS Vikramaditya has stood the test as a full-fledged highly capable aircraft carrier converted from the former hybrid missile-cum-aviation cruiser Admiral Gorshkov. The ship displayed excellent seaworthiness and manoeuvrability and performed flawlessly during aircraft takeoff and landing. Itís sophisticated radio-electronic, navigation and other systems demonstrated high efficiency and reliability.

    The malfunctioning of the boilers that occurred during high-speed tests will not require their replacement or removal from the vessel. The problem has been pinned down to insulation lining that is placed between the boiler steel casing and ceramic firebricks. Traditional asbestos lining was not used at the request of Indian specialists and replacement material developed slight deformation when the boilers were run at full power, causing some firebricks to fall out. The Indian side has now agreed to the use of asbestos cardboard.

    The boiler problem did not prevent the INS Vikramaditya from completing the trials. Informed sources told The Hindu that Indian Navy officers were particularly impressed by the flight programme. A MiG-29K and a MiG-29KUB 4++ generation fighters performed 41 impeccable take-offs and landings with full arms payload and additional fuel tanks. The combination of Russia and India-made optical and electronic landing systems enabled the Russian pilots in 70 percent of the landings to hook the second out of three arrestor wires, which is considered a perfect result, the sources said.

    The 44000-ton vessel also displayed superior manoeuvrability, performing a 360-degree turn at a minimum radius equal to one-and-a-half hull length at a speed of 18 knots.

    Apart from the boilers, defects were also detected in some other equipment, such as refrigerators, nitrogen generators and compressors sourced from German, British, Polish and Indian suppliers who had been picked by the Indian side.

    Russian shipbuilders have promised to complete all repairs by the beginning of next year, but since pre-delivery trials in the White Sea can resume only in late May, when sea ice melts away, the Vikramaditya will be handed over to the Indian Navy next autumn instead of this December, the sources said.

    This article has been corrected for a factual error.


    Keywords: INS Vikramaditya, India-Russia defence ties

  • #2
    It appears the truth will surface sooner or later, and I hope this article is much closer to the truth than what was posted a few weeks ago. Sounds like the Indian navy will have a impressive leap forward in which to flourish their naval aircraft exercises.
    "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
    Ernest Hemingway.

    "We're all going to die, all of us; what a circus! That alone should make us love each other, but it doesn't. We are terrorised and flattened by trivialities."
    Bukowski

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Achtung Baby View Post
      It appears the truth will surface sooner or later, and I hope this article is much closer to the truth than what was posted a few weeks ago. Sounds like the Indian navy will have a impressive leap forward in which to flourish their naval aircraft exercises.


      Since the article quotes Indian Naval personnel, it is more likely to be true. Alsothere is very strong speculation that the price hike of the refit was used to pay for Russian assistance with Nuclear subs. Again it is mere speculation. There were reports floating around that Russia made assistance with Nuclear subs conditional on India purchasing the Gorshkov.
      Nuclear subs being political hot potatoes India tried to hide the project including its budget. In an otherwise very transparent defence budget it is almost impossible to trace funds for the Nuclear sub.

      Something else that the article hints is that the aircraft carrier went through a very thorough pre commisioning testing under very strict srutiny of the Indian Navy.

      You are correct this aquisition will provide India a step up from the single STOVL aircraft carrier it operates.
      Last edited by Slim; 02 Oct 12, 17:55.

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      • #4
        Typically when a ship finishes sea trials it is delivered to the navy. I suspect the ship itself has become political entity and the sea trails were expedited out of political need than is practical. Watch out for more failures in the future.
        Last edited by IDonT4; 02 Oct 12, 18:47.

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        • #5
          Here is some footage from the trials.



          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKm1O...layer_embedded
          Last edited by Admiral; 02 Oct 12, 19:55. Reason: Added YouTube viewer

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          • #6
            Aren't Vikramaditya and Liaoning ships of the same class? Why has one been called by some as a "rustbucket", and the other a "powerful" carrier?
            "We have no white flag."

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            • #7
              Originally posted by GMan88 View Post
              Aren't Vikramaditya and Liaoning ships of the same class? Why has one been called by some as a "rustbucket", and the other a "powerful" carrier?
              No they are not. The Liaoning (Varyag) is the sistership of the Russian Kuznetsov carrier, which are the follow on class of the Kiev carriers of USSR. The Vikramaditya was the Admiral Gorshkov, the 4th Kiev class carrier.

              As you from the image, the Vikramaditya was never meant to be a full deck STOBAR carrier. As a result, she still has certain inefficiencies of the original design. Notice the awkward placement of the elevators and island. In addition, the INS Vikramaditya has a smaller hanger and a smaller AV gas capacity.

              In contrast, the Liaoning and the Kuznetsov were designed from the keel up as STOBAR carriers.
              Attached Files
              Last edited by IDonT4; 02 Oct 12, 21:51.

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              • #8
                By the way, the title of this thread is misleading. The ship did not finish her sea trials at all. While the ship this segment of her sea trials (builders trials), there were defects that were found (which is normal) that require to be fixed. I expect her to resume sea trials next summer to see if what was fixed were fixed.

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                • #9
                  One of the main difference is that aircraft actually take off and land from the Vikramaditya and it has not even been commisioned(inspite all her problems). The Varyag has been commisioned into the PLa Navy and no evidence of aircraft taking off or landing- unless maybe the PLA Navy has invented some super stealth tha makes Aircraft invisible to the human eye as well as radar. Maybe it is anew 6th gen stealth tech.

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                  • #10
                    As far as why the Varyag is called arust bucket ? Maybe this pic offers some clues.
                    Attached Files

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Slim View Post
                      As far as why the Varyag is called arust bucket ? Maybe this pic offers some clues.
                      The Varyag at the time of its acquisition was basically welded steel. It did not have any electronics, engines, cabling, etc. In contrast, the Gorshkov actually served as a commissioned warship and suffered a boiler explosion and sit at a dock for a decade. It was in far worst shape than the Varyag hull when it entered intop the Sevmash shipyard for refurbishment.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Slim View Post
                        One of the main difference is that aircraft actually take off and land from the Vikramaditya and it has not even been commisioned(inspite all her problems). The Varyag has been commisioned into the PLa Navy and no evidence of aircraft taking off or landing- unless maybe the PLA Navy has invented some super stealth tha makes Aircraft invisible to the human eye as well as radar. Maybe it is anew 6th gen stealth tech.
                        You do know that there is a difference in procedures in trying to generate a capability that isn't there as opposed to certifying a ship and aircraft with an existing naval aviation capability.

                        Here are some facts for you:

                        1.) China is using her carrier as a training ship as opposed to a front line warship that the Vikramaditya will be.
                        2.) Currently, the Vikramaditya is crewed by Russian sailors with a Russian captain. The Indian navy personel are observers.
                        3.) Carrier landings were made by Russian naval aviators not Indian naval aviators.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Slim View Post
                          One of the main difference is that aircraft actually take off and land from the Vikramaditya and it has not even been commisioned(inspite all her problems). The Varyag has been commisioned into the PLa Navy and no evidence of aircraft taking off or landing- unless maybe the PLA Navy has invented some super stealth tha makes Aircraft invisible to the human eye as well as radar. Maybe it is anew 6th gen stealth tech.


                          Kind of explains the difference in philosophy of the two navies. As one of the poster had mentioned in anothe thread. The Chinese need for the Aircraft carrier is for prestige enhancement- so it really does not need aircraft. The Indian Navy needs an aircraft carrier for its intended role- as a tool to protect its maritime and economic interests so the air complement is ready and functional even before the carrier is commisioned.
                          I am referring to this thread http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...d.php?t=125156 posts #9 and 13
                          Last edited by Slim; 03 Oct 12, 11:00.

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                          • #14
                            Apparently the Boiler insulation problem has been traced to faulty insulation bricks made in China http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...jpFcDWqbM9cKBw
                            That explains alot of things. First the Delay in delivery of the Akula 2 to India because of faulty Chinese steel now this.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Slim View Post
                              Apparently the Boiler insulation problem has been traced to faulty insulation bricks made in China http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...jpFcDWqbM9cKBw
                              That explains alot of things. First the Delay in delivery of the Akula 2 to India because of faulty Chinese steel now this.
                              Two emerging naval powers in the region. You think there's any connection between the shoddy parts and a possible future competition for the region?

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