Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

China's real blue water navy

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • China's real blue water navy

    http://thediplomat.com/2012/08/30/ch...so-scary-navy/

    China’s military, and navy, have two major layers:

    1. China has already developed, and continues to develop rapidly, potent high-end navy and “anti-Navy” capabilities. Like their other military counterparts, they are focused almost entirely on contested areas close to home.

    2. It is also developing low-end capabilities. They are relevant primarily for low-intensity peacetime missions in areas further afield.


    "Low End" Capabilities

    We believe Beijing is building a navy to handle a high-intensity conflict close to home where it can be supported by its large fleet of conventionally-powered submarines and shore-based missiles and aircraft. Vessels such as China’s soon-to-be-commissioned aircraft carrier and Type 071 amphibious assault ships could be helpful in certain limited conflict scenarios against far-less-capable opponents—particularly in the South China Sea. Yet these large but limited capital ships’ most likely use will be for handling missions geared toward:

    1. The regional mission of showing the flag in disputed areas and attempting to deter potential adversaries;

    2. Handling non-traditional security missions both in the East Asian/Western Pacific and Indian Ocean regions such as suppression of piracy, protecting/evacuating Chinese citizens trapped abroad by violence, and disaster response; as well as

    3. Making diplomatically-oriented cruises such as the recent visits to Black Sea ports, which are aimed at showing the flag and showing foreign and domestic audiences that China is becoming a truly global power

  • #2
    China are currently number 2...behind the U.S. This chart current as of last year.

    Though they are heavily numbered in conventional subs and frigates.



    "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

    "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Persephone View Post
      China are currently number 2...behind the U.S. This chart current as of last year.

      Though they are heavily numbered in conventional subs and frigates.
      Thanks for the info.

      This doesn't really tell us anything, unfortunately. The high profile projects of the PLAN (LPD, Carriers, 052C destroyers, 054A frigates) are basically part of their "low-end" build up. The "high end", the ones designed to fight the US forces close to China, are harder to see.

      These include:
      1.) Upgrades to C4ISR
      2.) Satelite position, navigation and timing
      3.) Anti-satelitte capability
      4.) Operational readiness
      5.) Doctrine upgrades
      6.) Area air defence
      7.) ASW

      Comment


      • #4
        Have you seen their new Type 052D Guided Missile Destroyer yet?


        Here's a CGI rendition of the Type 052D DDG below....






        Here's the Type 052C, Tpye 052D's predecessor...

        "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

        "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

        Comment


        • #5
          It's supposedly comparable to the U.S. Aegis destroyers...somehow I doubt it.


          According to China Military News, the new destroyers are equipped with two 32-unit vertical launch systems capable of launching HQ-9B air-defense missiles, anti-ship and anti-submarine missiles. The original YJ-62 missile launchers used on the Type 052C do not appear to be present on the new destroyer. It has been speculated that the Type 052D could be equipped with a naval-style version of the DH-10 land-attack cruise missile.

          Defense analysts expect the Type 052D to enter service in 2014.

          http://www.china.org.cn/china/2012-0...t_26390048.htm
          "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

          "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Persephone View Post
            Have you seen their new Type 052D Guided Missile Destroyer yet?
            I believe that ship is under construction based on ship yard photos.
            Attached Files

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Persephone View Post
              It's supposedly comparable to the U.S. Aegis destroyers...somehow I doubt it.
              The PLAN has been actively testing a new phased array radar on their test ship prior to the construction of the 052D.

              There is typically a lot of misconception about what makes an Aegis destroyer. The Aegis system is not just the phased array radar but an entire battle management system. we do not know what type of battle field management system are on Chinese ships, but it is very likely to be less capable than the US versions. Having said that, at the rate the Chinese are progressing, I would not rule out that China can match US radar and battle management systems within a decade or so.

              The 052D and 052C are effectively fleet AAW warships and have a different role than the Burke destroyers of the US Navy.

              http://globalmilitaryreview.blogspot...red-aegis.html

              Comment


              • #8
                Check out this congressional report released this month...

                https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...PmfLiZdd8xzHZA


                The report, entitled "China Naval Modernization: the meaning of the U.S. Navy's ability to report the opening that claimed that the United States on China's military modernization, especially the navy's modernization to respond, has increasingly become a key issue in the U.S. defense program. For the U.S. Navy is particularly important because most of the checks and balances China's military power projects falls in the Navy's budget.

                The report argues that the huge China-US economic and trade ties and conflict will bring heavy losses, the two countries will not be a full-scale military conflict.Changes in Sino-US maritime balance of power will determine the Asia-Pacific countries closer to who "choose" between China and the United States. In this sense, the United States balance the decision-making of the Chinese maritime military capabilities, will determine the future strategic environment of Asia-Pacific region, which in turn will also affect the United States in the world to obtain the ability of the different policy objectives.

                Report comprehensive performance and equipment of the Chinese naval ships spend a great length, which outlines in detail the scale of the construction of the main ships of the Chinese navy submarines, surface warships, amphibious landing ship, and forecast to 2020, the Chinese Navy will have 4 strategic nuclear submarines, 72 attack submarines, two aircraft carriers, 26 destroyers and 42 frigates. The report stressed that the Chinese navy in addition to procurement and construction of modern ships, also back-up facilities, operational doctrines, personnel education, training and exercises have implemented a comprehensive reform and upgrade.

                http://chinadefense.blogspot.de/2012...will-have.html
                "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

                "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

                Comment


                • #9
                  On another forum, some were discussing the possibility of the U.S. passing technology to China to trim some debt....I hope it's not true but I wouldn't put it pass this current admin in Washington.
                  "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

                  "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by IDonT4 View Post
                    The "high end", the ones designed to fight the US forces close to China,
                    Hi

                    Is it officially documented that these assets are designed with the single purpose of fighting the USN and nothing else?

                    Regards
                    "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Churchill

                    "I'm no reactionary.Christ on the Mountain! I'm as idealistic as Hell" Eisenhower

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Andy H View Post
                      Hi

                      Is it officially documented that these assets are designed with the single purpose of fighting the USN and nothing else?

                      Regards
                      No. It is all conjecture. However, the targets of these assets have US military all over it.

                      1.) Anti-Satellite missiles
                      2.) Anti -Ship ballistic missiles

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Andy H View Post
                        Hi

                        Is it officially documented that these assets are designed with the single purpose of fighting the USN and nothing else?

                        Regards

                        I suspect the military assets are geared towards Taiwan and India, but with the USN in mind as well because the U.S. would most likely side with them in a conflict with the Chinese.

                        Taiwan has a very capable navy and India's navy is going to get there eventually. PLAN has to stay ahead of them at any cost.
                        "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

                        "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Persephone View Post
                          I suspect the military assets are geared towards Taiwan and India, but with the USN in mind as well because the U.S. would most likely side with them in a conflict with the Chinese.

                          Taiwan has a very capable navy and India's navy is going to get there eventually. PLAN has to stay ahead of them at any cost.
                          You are connecting the dots where they don't exists.

                          1.) Taiwan and India do not have an extensive satellite network, so why invest in this capability if these countries are make the most likely threat.
                          2.) Current force structure is sufficient to deter Taiwan from unilaterally declaring independence.
                          3.) I forsee no military conflict between India and China. Power politics and Andrunal Pradesh is not enough to warrant a war.


                          As I stated before, the "big ticket" high visibility items (052D, 071 LPDs, carriers, etc) are for domestic consumption and for:

                          1.)The regional mission of showing the flag in disputed areas and attempting to deter potential adversaries;

                          2. Handling non-traditional security missions both in the East Asian/Western Pacific and Indian Ocean regions such as suppression of piracy, protecting/evacuating Chinese citizens trapped abroad by violence, and disaster response; as well as

                          3. Making diplomatically-oriented cruises such as the recent visits to Black Sea ports, which are aimed at showing the flag and showing foreign and domestic audiences that China is becoming a truly global power

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Persephone View Post
                            On another forum, some were discussing the possibility of the U.S. passing technology to China to trim some debt....I hope it's not true but I wouldn't put it pass this current admin in Washington.
                            I'm calling BS on this. The sovereign bond markets do not work like that. Currently, the cost of capital for the US debt is very low. Everytime a portion of US debt comes to maturity, it is always refinanced at very low rates. The problem will come, however, when the bond markets have lost confidence in the US debt. At such time, refinancing debt would be very expensive (higher interest rate).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by IDonT4 View Post
                              I'm calling BS on this. The sovereign bond markets do not work like that. Currently, the cost of capital for the US debt is very low. Everytime a portion of US debt comes to maturity, it is always refinanced at very low rates. The problem will come, however, when the bond markets have lost confidence in the US debt. At such time, refinancing debt would be very expensive (higher interest rate).
                              Like I said...don't put anything pass the current admin. We are currently passing military technology to Brazil!


                              Panetta gave Brazil assurances the U.S. administration would support generous technology transfers from U.S. firms to Brazilian manufacturers in any future defense collaboration deal. He also urged Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff to buy Boeing's Super Hornets. Details of any technology transfer offers weren't disclosed.


                              This is an interesting 2010 video...


                              "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

                              "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              • casanova
                                Berlin.1945
                                by casanova
                                The Sowjet T-34 tank against a German Tiger tank in Berlin in the II World War in 1945. ...
                                Yesterday, 23:41
                              • casanova
                                AW 169M
                                by casanova
                                The Austrian minister of defence Klaudia Tanner declared the buy of 18 Italian military helicopters of the type AW 169M for the Austrian army, the Bundesheer....
                                Yesterday, 23:26
                              • JBark
                                What changed?
                                by JBark
                                There was a time not too long ago when this forum was full of discussion, multiple posts, votes and involved discussions on the best of the war, etc.,...
                                Yesterday, 18:54
                              Working...
                              X