Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Is It Time to Abolish the U.S. Air Force?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

    The USAF got a separate security force while I was still in; it was because the Army was unable to provide adequate security.

    Mixing the two services would be a very bad move. WW2 proved that. It would simply spawn yet more bureaucracy and wasted effort, while over-burdening the top brass with a wild variety of doctrinal and technological choices.

    Every nation that lacked a separate air branch in WW2 added one since. It simply does not mesh.

    The US Army hasn't operated ballistic missile systems since 1991, when Pershing II was withdrawn. It only operates rotary wing aircraft.

    There's no basis fore doctrinal interface.

    Eliminating the USAF would be a retrograde step, and a major disaster.

    Nor does the Air Force have any unit comparable to the Rangers, SEALs, or whatever 'commandos' are. They have the pararescue jumpers, which are a natural outgrowth of their air rescue mission.

    Why the Navy has SEALs is a mystery, since that is a role the USMC is designed for and does better.
    And yet the United States Air Corps, under the US Army, performed admirably during WWII, so that argument doesn't really hold true.

    In fact, the Marines have pretty much demonstrated that the Army needs its own fixed wing air support in the same way that the Navy and Marines have it, to serve their own specific role. The Air Force could therefore be specifically relegated to strategic bombing, strategic air defense and missile defense. Fact is, the Air Force is hugely expensive for the mission it performs and is often reluctant to risk it's costly toys in actual combat.
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

      And yet the United States Air Corps, under the US Army, performed admirably during WWII, so that argument doesn't really hold true.
      Actually, the exact opposite was determined by the post-war studies. The Long-range bomber programs were a failure; German industry continue rapid growth through 43-44; while US air power managed to massacre hundreds of thousands of non-combatants, it utterly failed in its mission of strategic destruction. Meanwhile, the resources poured into the program prevented the formation of the planned hundred-division army, which meant that the the burnout of existing formations crippled US combat power.

      Had there been a separate air arm focusing solely upon the technology and doctrines unique to their mission, as in subsequent conflicts, US losses would have been lower and combat efficiency would have been higher.

      To merge those two services would be counter-productive in the extreme.

      Examine the mass of studies that led to the formation of the USAF; it's all public record.
      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
        Actually, the exact opposite was determined by the post-war studies. The Long-range bomber programs were a failure; German industry continue rapid growth through 43-44; while US air power managed to massacre hundreds of thousands of non-combatants, it utterly failed in its mission of strategic destruction. Meanwhile, the resources poured into the program prevented the formation of the planned hundred-division army, which meant that the the burnout of existing formations crippled US combat power.

        Had there been a separate air arm focusing solely upon the technology and doctrines unique to their mission, as in subsequent conflicts, US losses would have been lower and combat efficiency would have been higher.
        I'm not following your logic. You're assuming that had the USAF been a separate service 1941-1945, then the AF would not have deprived the Army of resources and it would have developed high tech systems that would have more effectively prosecuted an air war against Germany. Your assumptions ignore three salient facts:

        1) had the USAF been an independent branch of the service, then it would have deprived both the Navy (and by extension the USMC) and the Army of funding, not just the Army alone;

        2) the independence of the RAF and the Luftwaffe did not result in discernibly superior technology during WW2, nor did it result in discernibly war-winning results;

        3) the independence of the USAF and its independence with regards to acquiring fiscal resources and developing technology did not result in discernibly superior results in Viet Nam. I've heard rumors that some of the USAF's hands in Viet Nam were so impressed with the performance of old, low-tech, and USAAF and USN developed A-26 Invaders and A-1 Skyraiders that the USAF brass was compelled to inquire about restarting production of those two "obsolete" prop birds, only to learn that building those tools and dyes from scratch would be considered prohibitively expensive: it would take funding away from the F-111, F-15 and B-1 then under development.

        In fact, without the political will required to employ strategic weapons, air power alone can not be a decisive factor. With that in mind, the role that an independent Air Force plays tactically remains quite uncertain, and makes justifying its funding politically tenuous.
        Last edited by slick_miester; 19 Sep 18, 11:36.
        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

        Comment


        • #19
          Why abolish the U.S.A.F. ? That's about as dumb as getting rid of the Marines.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Merkava188 View Post
            Why abolish the U.S.A.F. ? That's about as dumb as getting rid of the Marines.

            If we get rid of the airforce as a seperate entity, we may as well get rid of the navy, since that's just the army in boats, right .

            Call the combined unit a Marine Army, they use every asset anyway .
            How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
            Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post


              If we get rid of the airforce as a seperate entity, we may as well get rid of the navy, since that's just the army in boats, right .

              Call the combined unit a Marine Army, they use every asset anyway .
              We really only need two armed forces, a land force - the Marines - and an ocean force - the Navy. They already have a long tradition of working closely together.
              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

              Comment


              • #22
                I suspect this question is largely mooted by UAVs. This is the current arena where the Army and Air Force are battling over mission and platform ownership. If the Army gets CAS, ISR, and other kinds of UAVs they will essentially have most of mission. There is a logic to the Army having them since this will enable them to be integrated into Army C2 systems.

                Comment


                • #23
                  8 years ago or so, the idea of merging the British army, navy, and air force into a "super-force" was going to be considered as part of a defence-forces review.

                  Another interesting article, from The Telegraph, February 3, 2010:

                  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...e-debated.html

                  在魔鬼和深蓝色的海洋之间. 悪魔と深海の間. Carpe hunc diem.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Redzen View Post
                    8 years ago or so, the idea of merging the British army, navy, and air force into a "super-force" was going to be considered as part of a defence-forces review.

                    Another interesting article, from The Telegraph, February 3, 2010:

                    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...e-debated.html
                    That'd be easy for Britain... Their armed forces are smaller than the NHS...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                      That'd be easy for Britain... Their armed forces are smaller than the NHS...
                      I see. I don't doubt it.
                      在魔鬼和深蓝色的海洋之间. 悪魔と深海の間. Carpe hunc diem.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        No, but it's time to let the Army go back to flying small fixed wing aircraft for troop transport and close air support.
                        "Shoot for the epaulets, boys! Shoot for the epaulets!" - Daniel Morgan

                        Comment

                        Latest Topics

                        Collapse

                        Working...
                        X