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  • F-35 vs Sukhoi-30MK

    F-35 vs Sukhoi-30MK, one on one, equal pilot ability, neutral combat, no AWACS, whose cockpit would you like to be in?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Aussie View Post
    F-35 vs Sukhoi-30MK, one on one, equal pilot ability, neutral combat, no AWACS, whose cockpit would you like to be in?
    SU-30MK, but it's a not very good comparison since you're comparing an interceptor to an attack airplane.
    Eagles may fly; but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines!

    "I'm not expendable; I'm not stupid and I'm not going." - Kerr Avon, Blake's 7

    What didn't kill us; didn't make us smarter.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Aussie View Post
      F-35 vs Sukhoi-30MK, one on one, equal pilot ability, neutral combat, no AWACS, whose cockpit would you like to be in?
      F-22 vs Su-30 might be a better comparison.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Aussie View Post
        F-35 vs Sukhoi-30MK, one on one, equal pilot ability, neutral combat, no AWACS, whose cockpit would you like to be in?
        Just out of curiosity mate, why these two planes?

        I'm sure you have a good reason.
        "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
        Ernest Hemingway.

        "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
        Mark Twain.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by achtung baby View Post
          Just out of curiosity mate, why these two planes?

          I'm sure you have a good reason.
          Your on the ball ab I did have something in mind, it's the debate about the F-35 having to take over the role as both air superiority fighter, and attack [from the F-111's] in the RAAF.

          Carlo Kopp keeps repeating it's the wrong aircraft for the RAAF, not enough legs, [although in flight refueling and stand off missiles would help]
          and isn't a superior dog fighter compared to the SU-30MK.

          Its no problem for the U.S. as it has the F-22, but for other countries it's only the F-35.

          And various countries in our region are getting their hands on the Sukhoi.

          A heck of a lot depends on the stealth qualities of the F-35 to give it an edge, but Ive read that the Australian JSF will have only a ‘third tier’ stealth capability. The F-22 has the highest stealth configuration, followed by the US version of the JSF, and then the JSF version sold to countries such as the UK and Australia.

          Kopp says that 50 F-22's would be a huge improvement over 100 plus F-35's, even though the F-22 isn't for sale at the present, no doubt countries like Israel, Japan [and hopefully Aus] will get their hands on them sooner or later.

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          • #6
            Yes I see what you mean mate, but either plane would come with limited hardware and software, most exported planes have this drawback!

            The problem with the Australian Defence Force is that they want most equipment which is shared by our biggest ally, America. Why do you think we are getting the Abrams tank, cheap and easily accessible replacement parts when we fight alongside the Americans. I don't like the tanks personally but then I don't have a say in that.

            Why get some Russian planes and start from scratch with acquiring parts and weapons for the Su-30MK? Don't get me wrong but parts could be harder to buy when hostilities flair up around the globe.

            As for the F-22... bloody expensive! And I doubt the Americans would share ALL the avionics and software that their planes will be blessed with, IIRC, the British had to kick and scream to get most of the equipment that comes with the F-35.

            Nothing wrong with the SuperHornets we are getting, very agile planes.

            Post later with some planes that I would like to see in our skies.

            Peace
            Last edited by Achtung Baby; 02 Aug 07, 05:53.
            "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
            Ernest Hemingway.

            "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
            Mark Twain.

            Comment


            • #7
              I would like Australia to have F-16's and a plane to replace the F-111 (or as i like to call it the flying s***box)
              "Folks need to be realists and realize that peace is a nice idea, but ultimately unattainable on a worldwide level."
              - 6thInf Grandson

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              • #8
                F-15E Strike Eagle

                F-15E Strike Eagle
                I'm going to be a bit bold and say that Australia should go for this plane!
                We have overlooked this plane in the past but why dismiss it again.

                The F-15E Strike Eagle is the world's leading dual-role fighter, performing air-to-ground and air-to-air missions with unmatched success. An array of avionics and electronics systems gives the F-15E the capability to fight at low altitude during day or night and in inclement weather, and to perform its primary function as an air-to-ground attack aircraft.

                "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                Ernest Hemingway.

                "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
                Mark Twain.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by achtung baby View Post
                  Yes I see what you mean mate, but either plane would come with limited hardware and software, most exported planes have this drawback!

                  The problem with the Australian Defence Force is that they want most equipment which is shared by our biggest ally, America. Why do you think we are getting the Abrams tank, cheap and easily accessible replacement parts when we fight alongside the Americans. I don't like the tanks personally but then I don't have a say in that.

                  Why get some Russian planes and start from scratch with acquiring parts and weapons for the Su-30MK? Don't get me wrong but parts could be harder to buy when hostilities flair up around the globe.

                  As for the F-22... bloody expensive! And I doubt the Americans would share ALL the avionics and software that their planes will be blessed with, IIRC, the British had to kick and scream to get most of the equipment that comes with the F-35.

                  Nothing wrong with the SuperHornets we are getting, very agile planes.

                  Post later with some planes that I would like to see in our skies.
                  I'd scrap the Super Hornets and F-35's and get a couple of squadrons of F-15's and a couple [squadrons, not two aircraft] of F-22's.
                  Peace


                  On the ball again ab

                  Why the heck defense went for over a billion dollars worth of super Hornets over the F-15 has got me perplexed.

                  The RAF needs a long range strike option after the F-111's are put out to pasture, and the Eagle fills the bill.

                  You mention the price of the F-22, and your right, it is bloody expensive!

                  But from the bits of info I track down, the price of the F-35 has gone from a base price of about $40 million sometime back, to $80 million today and climbing, while the F-22 has come down from $180 million to ''only'' $140 million according to a U.S. report.

                  Wouldn't hold my breath on prices though, what you end up paying in end could be any one's guess.

                  I'd scrap the Super Hornets and F-35's and get a couple of squadrons of F-15's, and three [squadrons, not three aircraft ] of F-22's.

                  And hope we're not too broke to buy the Navy's air warfare destroyers.

                  On the tanks, I agree with your thoughts, follow on the Leo1 with Leo 2 like the Canadians, might have been the better option.



                  Originally posted by PiNpOiNt99 View Post
                  I would like Australia to have F-16's and a plane to replace the F-111 (or as i like to call it the flying s***box)
                  Don't let Carlo Kopp hear you say that.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Correct my if I'm wrong but have we cut back on the orders on how many F-35s we wanted originally?
                    "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                    Ernest Hemingway.

                    "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
                    Mark Twain.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Not sure ab.

                      How many we end up with is anyone's guess, it was originally 100, but with the price soaring it wouldn't surprise me if the number came down a bit.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Aussie View Post
                        Not sure ab.

                        How many we end up with is anyone's guess, it was originally 100, but with the price soaring it wouldn't surprise me if the number came down a bit.
                        Found this article, looks like you were right mate!

                        There has been debate in Australia over whether the F-35 is the most suitable aircraft for the RAAF. Some media reports, lobby groups and politicians have raised doubts that the aircraft will be ready in time to replace the RAAF's aging fleet of General Dynamics F-111 strike aircraft and F/A-18 Hornet fighters. Some critics say the more expensive F-22 or the Eurofighter may be better choices, both offering better range, dogfighting capability, and supercruise at a cost that may not be much more than the F-35 — claims that as of July 2006 are being examined in a parliamentary inquiry.

                        In a statement released in early August 2006, Australian Defence Minister Dr. Brendan Nelson revealed that whilst the F-35 still had governmental support, Australia is starting to investigate other possible aircraft should the F-35 prove to be unfeasible. In October 2006 the deputy chief of the Air Force, Air Vice Marshal John Blackburn, publicly stated that the RAAF had ruled out the purchase of interim strike aircraft to cover any delays to the F-35 program and believed that the F-35 was suitable. However, on 6 March 2007, Dr. Nelson announced the Australian Government would purchase 24 F/A-18F Super Hornets from Boeing to fill the gap left by the retiring F-111 strike bombers at a cost of potentially A$6 billion. Nonetheless, Dr. Nelson says he continues to endorse Australia’s purchase of the F-35. Speaking on Australian television in March 2007, Dr. Nelson stated that 5% of the capability of the F-35 is classified, claiming that, "that's the five percent that really counts."

                        On 13 December 2006, Minister Nelson signed the JSF Production, Sustainment and Follow-on Development Memorandum of Understanding. This agreement provides the cooperative framework for the acquisition and support of the JSF over its life. Australia is expected to purchase 100 F-35As at a cost of approximately $16 billion AUD.
                        "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                        Ernest Hemingway.

                        "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
                        Mark Twain.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Cripes, that's $22 billion for 24 Super Hornets and 100 F-35's.

                          Much rather have 24 Eagles and 50 F-22's any day of the week.

                          Haven't got the ear of any poly's have you?

                          Changing tack a little, could you [or anyone] help me out with some info?

                          A while back the U.S. B2 stealth bombers used the Delamere Air Weapons Range in the Northern Territory for bombing practise.

                          The Jindalee over the horizon radar [JORN] boys were looking forward to seeing how the JORN performed in detecting the B2.

                          Naturally there wouldn't be to many details, but just wondering if anything at all surfaced about it?

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                          • #14
                            Found this, 29 February 2000

                            JORN(Jindalee Operational Radar Network) project manager Gordon McElroy, who previously directed Lockheed Martin's US battlefield defence programs, says of JORN: "There is none like it anywhere on the planet."

                            McElroy says the Jindalee radar is very difficult to jam because of the way the signal is propagated over the ionosphere. "It can also detect stealth bombers, which are not designed to defeat the characteristics of Jindalee's high frequency radar," he said.

                            Stealth aircraft, such as the US Nighthawk F117A, are designed with sharp leading edges and a flat belly to minimise reflections back towards conventional ground-based radars. However, Jindalee radar bounces down from the ionosphere onto upper surfaces that include radar-reflecting protrusions for a cockpit, engine housings and other equipment.

                            Group Captain Hockings says stealth aircraft are coated with special radar absorbing material to avoid detection by conventional microwave radar. But the Jindalee radar uses high frequency radio waves, which have a much longer frequency than microwave radar. "Unless designed to be stealthy to both microwave and HF radars, (stealth) aircraft would not evade detection by JORN," he said.
                            "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                            Ernest Hemingway.

                            "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
                            Mark Twain.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks ab, the JORN's detection and range is supposed to be pretty outstanding, Ive seen some reports that it could reach Hong Kong airport, but a spokesman said ''that might be going a bit too far'' don't think it has any problem covering an arc as far as Singapore, probably a fair bit further.

                              The Navy League mag is whining about the decision to buy the smaller Spanish air warfare destroyers, [or Frigates, as they call them] instead of the bigger ''baby Burke'' design that was in the running.

                              They now say we need 6 of the Spanish design instead of 3.

                              Not sure wear the money will come from.

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