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Rheinmetal - 130mm MBT concept.

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  • Rheinmetal - 130mm MBT concept.

    Larger gun, and auto loader... new proposal for the Challenger 2 upgrade.

    "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
    Ernest Hemingway.

    "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
    Mark Twain.

  • #2
    I wonder how much shell capacity is reduced due to the larger shells and whether it could be offset by the autoloader?

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    • #3
      So tanks will now grow larger in order to carry heavier armor, and on and on it goes. The Maus itself only had a 120 mm cannon. Soon we will end up with he old Soviet 152 mm main gun developed for their assault guns.

      Bigger shells means more or larger ammo carrying vehicles, and so and so on down the line.

      Now the IFV's will need to upgrade, 30 mm, 35 mm, why not a 57 mm, just like the go old days when that was the main gun of a tank?

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      • #4
        They've been looking at the 40mm for a long time for IFV use. Because it has better anti armor at all angles and it's a much better he round.
        Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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        • #5
          Best anti-armor round is the depleted uranium 30 mm GAU-8 round. Weighs only half-a-pound and goes right through everything.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
            They've been looking at the 40mm for a long time for IFV use. Because it has better anti armor at all angles and it's a much better he round.
            When working in conjunction with tanks the IFVs can light up the target so the MBT can shoot from behind a hill. As seen in this video the three CV9030 armed with 30mm are designating the target with a lot of serious firepower themselves... the Leopard 2 makes sure it's a confirmed kill.

            "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
            Ernest Hemingway.

            "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
            Mark Twain.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              Best anti-armor round is the depleted uranium 30 mm GAU-8 round. Weighs only half-a-pound and goes right through everything.
              That's because an A10 shoots into the thinner top armor of the tank.

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              • #8
                Use of the GAU-8 gun during Desert Storm had mixed results. The A-10 often had to dive from around 10,000 feet at a 45-60 degree angle, after which the aircraft closed on the target and firing a burst of 150-200 rounds. Even with such dives, A-10s were not always able to close within gun range of armoured vehicles because of Iraqi air defences.

                Incidentally, the IFV Bradley destroyed more armoured vehicles than the M1 MBT.

                "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                Ernest Hemingway.

                "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
                Mark Twain.

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                • #9
                  The shells would be prohibitively expensive if the UK is the only one going for this gun

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                  • #10
                    The Iraqis had a lot of different tanks. Even the newer types like the T-72 were vulnerable to tank fire. The Bradley had the latest TOW missiles as well. i vaguely recall the Iraqis lost T-54/55's to 25mm Bradley main guns.

                    Pruitt
                    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                      The shells would be prohibitively expensive if the UK is the only one going for this gun
                      Why?
                      How are the parts of today's shells manufactured? My guess would be cnc turning and milling for the projectile parts. Are casings still cold drawn? Or am I 50 years off with that?
                      What number of shells would need to be put on stock?
                      "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rutger View Post

                        Why?
                        How are the parts of today's shells manufactured? My guess would be cnc turning and milling for the projectile parts. Are casings still cold drawn? Or am I 50 years off with that?
                        What number of shells would need to be put on stock?
                        I don't have an answer but just an FYI--the British Army is down to only 3 tank battalions, a little over 160 active tanks.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                          The shells would be prohibitively expensive if the UK is the only one going for this gun
                          I don’t think this prototype is directly for the UK market, as as a tech demonstration for the overall European share. I’ve read the 130mm won’t be ready for the next Challenger upgrade.
                          "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                          Ernest Hemingway.

                          "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
                          Mark Twain.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Rutger View Post

                            Why?
                            How are the parts of today's shells manufactured? My guess would be cnc turning and milling for the projectile parts. Are casings still cold drawn? Or am I 50 years off with that?
                            What number of shells would need to be put on stock?

                            I was thinking the cost would be in the development of the shells. There's no point upgrading the gun if you don't get the super-dooper APFSDS projectiles to go with it. Unless there is an off the shelf design the UK could buy?

                            Probably total purchase would be no more than 30,000 over a couple of decades?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Achtung Baby View Post

                              I don’t think this prototype is directly for the UK market, as as a tech demonstration for the overall European share. I’ve read the 130mm won’t be ready for the next Challenger upgrade.

                              Oh, right. Getting excited then.
                              Still if the UK can't get the 130mm for the Challenger 2, yet, at least there is absolutely no point in a hugely expensive upgrade just to replace the 120mm rifle with the 120mm smooth bore.

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