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  • johns624
    replied
    I'd use a SDMR version for the "sniper" on the team. He can reach out to 600yds with the 77gr OTM. That's all you really need. Think of it this way--at 600yds (or even 400), the bad guy doesn't even know you exist unless you want him to. In a SHTF situation, the fewer firefights you're in, the longer you stay alive.

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  • slick24
    replied
    I have an AR10 (7.62 NATO\.308) and it is an awesome gun. It can shoot accurately further than I can see. I can hit targets at 300+ yards easy. My Galil (5.56\.223) is accurate to about 250-300 yards, but it can take a beating and still run smoothly and it can shoot brass or steel cartridges equally as well.

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  • G David Bock
    replied
    Originally posted by 82redleg View Post

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knig..._Company_SR-25

    https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearm...in-optic-ready

    They are both AR platforms in 7.62/.308, and possibly other calibers. There are others, too, but these are the two that I think are most common.

    They share some parts commonality with an AR-15, but the real benefit is the same manual of arms/weapon manipulation muscle memory. If a person armed with an AR pick some up an M1A, he has to use different patterns of movement to run the gun. With an SR-25, those patterns are the same because the controls are all in the same place and work in the same manner.

    Range is a factor of barrel length and cartridge (powder, bullet weight/form, etc)- you won't see a significant difference in system accuracy between an M1A and an SR-25, if those two things are constant.
    Thanks.
    You make some good points. Guess I'd change to the SR-25 in place of the M1A.

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  • 82redleg
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

    Mainly because my impression was slightly greater range with the M1A.
    The others I have no familiarity with, nor have used, so you may have to educate me, and other readers.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knig..._Company_SR-25

    https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearm...in-optic-ready

    They are both AR platforms in 7.62/.308, and possibly other calibers. There are others, too, but these are the two that I think are most common.

    They share some parts commonality with an AR-15, but the real benefit is the same manual of arms/weapon manipulation muscle memory. If a person armed with an AR pick some up an M1A, he has to use different patterns of movement to run the gun. With an SR-25, those patterns are the same because the controls are all in the same place and work in the same manner.

    Range is a factor of barrel length and cartridge (powder, bullet weight/form, etc)- you won't see a significant difference in system accuracy between an M1A and an SR-25, if those two things are constant.

    Leave a comment:


  • slick24
    replied
    AR15s for rifleman, .270 to 30-06 for sniping, 9mm pistols or .357 Magnum revolvers, bowie knife or bayonets, 12 ga, pump or auto or AR style 12 ga (like the Panzer arms guns). 22 semi-auto for backups (you can store a lot of .22 ammo and like mentioned above it is lethal). Everyone around here is buying ammo, the guns are already here..

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  • slick24
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

    Stout metal tubes, battery and wire trigger to ignite,= home-made "panzer faust" or mortar ???

    Just some food for thought maybe.
    We used to do this in the 70's and use it like a bazooka. It was not easy to hit anything at range, but it was cool when you did.

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  • Pruitt
    replied
    I love my M1A! It shoots farther than I can see. Around here there is not so much clear space, though. Yes, I do also have an AR 15. I can love both of them!

    Pruitt

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  • G David Bock
    replied
    Originally posted by 82redleg View Post

    Why would you choose M1A over SR-25, M&P10, or other AR-type in 7.62/.308?

    You won't gain much on parts commonality, but you do gain a BUNCH on manual of arms/manipulation. I admit to being biased toward the AR, because I've used it the most, but I've always found the M1 to be poor ergonomically. YMMV.
    Mainly because my impression was slightly greater range with the M1A.
    The others I have no familiarity with, nor have used, so you may have to educate me, and other readers.

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  • 82redleg
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    Main weapon; long-gun/rifle;

    Assuming from OP there is time to acquire and/or train in advance, when it comes to the main weapon for each member, a rifle is ideal, and semi-auto types would be ideal as well. Quick load with magazines and basic to operate in a point and shoot, with minimum distraction of working a bolt or lever for each round to be fired. Easier to keep eye and sights on target, especially if needing to fire more than one shot in quick succession.

    Again, keeping ammo types to a minimum and common (interchangeable among team members) I'd go with either 5.56mm/.223 and/or 7.62/.308.

    My preference would be most have some version of an AR 'clone', for simplicity, easy , and commonality; and in the 5,56mm/.223 ammo size.

    A smaller number would have something like the Springfield M1A (civilian version of the M14) in (NATO) 7.62mm/.308 for a weapon witha bit more hitting power, penetration, and range.

    M1A™ Series Rifles - Springfield Armory

    Springfield Armory M1A - Wikipedia

    If going with three person fire team structure, than two with the AR and one with the M1A.

    Scopes optional, maybe just a few and those for your sharpshooter/sniper members.
    Why would you choose M1A over SR-25, M&P10, or other AR-type in 7.62/.308?

    You won't gain much on parts commonality, but you do gain a BUNCH on manual of arms/manipulation. I admit to being biased toward the AR, because I've used it the most, but I've always found the M1 to be poor ergonomically. YMMV.

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  • Pruitt
    replied
    One problem could well be living close to major urban areas. I have two Grandsons living in Metro Houston. They could get trapped in there if the manure hits the fan. The older one has a shotgun, but I doubt he has much ammo. His Girlfriend may talk him out of leaving early. Number two Grandson has his shotgun here and maybe his 22. I have some guns and ammo I keep here. I don't think it is enough and I doubt the local WalMart keeps much on hand.

    One caliber not brought up yet is 22 Magnum. I have a fine 22 Magnum with a scope and a bipod. I don't have a lot of ammo for it. I think I can find my earplugs.

    Pruitt

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  • Frtigern
    replied
    Wow, G David Bock has really taken the ball with this one and ran with it, going into every bit of kit. I like your ideas especially things like shotgun barrel changing for indoor use, drones, and homemade RPGs. Its the kind of innovation you see in places affected by civil war like the Arab Spring in Libya, and Syria where necessity is the mother of invention, using materials available to increase the lethality of your squad, deterring others from messing with you but also could draw others seeking to gain your devices for themselves. It will require a degree of security and secrecy to maintain your edge over less skilled outfits.

    You're correct that the military does not like to keep weapons and ammo stored near each other, and for good reason. However, choosing a military issued caliber for your weapons does make sense if you happen to come upon any military-issued weapons and ammo, likely some poor Guardsman acting as riot control shot by angry crowds wanting to hoard anything worth hoarding. Like your shotgun barrel options, the AR platform can also changed to suit different calibers. That could be an important factor when looking at the utility of each person's weapon in the near and long term. A super compact lightweight tacticool SBR AR15 is awesome in CQB needed to fight through the supermarket aisles, but how effective will it be later on the homestead trying to take down elk? Luckily, you can build two guns on the same platform to do both and would only require a few changes. You could stash several larger caliber uppers with barrels at base for hunting duty, or carry them on scavenging/hunting/gathering patrols, although a dedicated marksman with a large caliber AR preassembled and ready to shoot makes more sense. If you have a lot of 7.62 laying around though, it may be advantageous to acquire AR-10s for primary weapons as its not as simple as doing a barrel, bolt, and mag change on an AR-15.

    Only barrel change
    .300 HAM’R
    .300 Blackout

    Barrel and bolt change
    .458 SOCOM
    .50 Beowulf

    Barrel, bolt, and mags change
    6.8 SPC
    6.5 Grendel

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  • Frtigern
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    Been kicking this one around for a while, so first issue would be;
    1) Are we talking about a hunker-down and defend homestead/home-turf; perimeter scenario; = repel the hordes of "city mobs" invaders ??? ...
    OR
    2) Equip for a "bug-out" and go someplace more remote and defensible sort of scenario ... ???
    OR
    3) a mix of both above, Hold as long as possible with "bug-out" an eventual game plan .... ???
    OR
    4) Hold our Turf with vision of re-establish and re-build after a TEOTEAWKI = The End Of The Earth As We Know It scenario, situation ...
    OR
    5) Other ...

    Ask only because there might be some variation on what we should have and need to pack out on our backs versus what we can have, need, use to "hold in place".

    Sort of a separate topic for later discussion, I'll carry on with some other basic considerations ...
    It would depend on where you are. For rural folk with any stockpile of food and water, it may make more sense to hunker-down, but those in urban and suburban areas may decide that it's safer to get out of town. It could definitely be either scenario or both either hunkering down initially and then bugging out or bugging out and hunkering down. Whatever plans you have after you survive are your own, however, those plans may dictate what kind of weapons you choose. Logistically, you would have to decide what is the most feasible situation given the supplies you have versus what you need to get. Do you risk leaving the safety of your fortress but dwindling supplies and try and find a better position or do you wait for the initial chaos to hopefully passover and then go out scavenging whats left while you try to find a better position? Its a tough decision and a lot may depend on the abilities of your crew and the how bad it could get where you are.

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  • G David Bock
    replied
    Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
    Weather Channel radio?

    Pruitt

    Oh yeah, good one. Maybe full am/fm/shortwave "survival" model.

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  • G David Bock
    replied
    Explosives and RPG, etc.

    Quick and short here, hardly consider myself very knowledgeable, but ...

    There are books and resources on homemade explosives "out there" (internet, mail-order, etc.) so this might be something to consider and look into.

    Also, consider model rocketry as a source for engines* to power homemade "Rocket Propelled Grenades". (maybe a stick of dynamite for the warhead?) *and some structural parts/kit.

    Stout metal tubes, battery and wire trigger to ignite,= home-made "panzer faust" or mortar ???

    Just some food for thought maybe.

    One last item here, rather than another post. While armories such as those for National Guard and Reserve units might have weapons there-in, there usually is very little ammo stored for such. Often only a few rounds per person assigned to the unit TO&E. So while you might get your hands on an M-60, likely not very much ammo for it there. Something to keep in mind.

    Also, if it's a "stuff hitting the fan"~TEOTWAWKI ~ consider getting to such armories before "the other side" does.

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  • Pruitt
    replied
    Weather Channel radio?

    Pruitt

    Leave a comment:

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