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  • Your civilian fire team/squad weapons

    With the recent uptick in boogaloo fears, as well as the ever-popular apocalypse preppers and so-called "militias" arming themselves for one thing or another, let's imagine you get your closest friends, bros, confidants, or comrades together because you know you can better survive as a team. To keep this military-related, the weapons you have access to you are only civilian versions of military-issued firearms. No full autos, no machine guns, no grenade launchers. Just guns that any civilian could get. As social services like the police breakdown you and your crew have an armory that has the weapons listed below, what weapons do you choose for each member of your crew? It can be as small as a fire team or as large as a platoon as its unlikely anyone has a company worth of people they can call up to roll out in an armed convoy. You can equip them only with one type of each as it's very unlikely anyone would want to carry multiples of the same weapon types, which is why militaries designate certain weapon systems to soldiers like grenadiers, machine gunner, riflemen, designated marksmen, anti-tank, but there seems to be a good reason for a squad's size and the distribution of certain weapons systems by teams. You don't have to emulate any military squad like below. The question is, what weapons would you choose to equip and why? Bonus if you name the caliber used for each weapon, although some are self-explanatory.

    For example:
    ​​​​​

    The Armory
    These firearms aren't all exactly what you can buy brand new at an American brick and mortar gun store as some were only imported in limited runs and can only be found used. Others are only clones using the same parts in order to be like the military version or to bypass import restrictions. These firearms represent what any country may be using currently either as frontline or reserve. I tried not to include firearms that are no longer in service. To save space I've consolidated some firearms by company or design type, it does not mean that they are one weapon.
    Rifles Pistols Shotguns
    AK-47, AK-74, AK-101, AKM Beretta M9/92F Benelli M3, M4
    AR-10, AR-15 (M4, M16) Browning Hi-Power Browning Auto-5
    Beretta AR70 Colt M1911 DP-12
    Beryl Archer CZ 75 FNH SLP MK
    CETME Model L FN Five-seven Heckler & Koch FABARM FP6
    CZ BREN 2 Glock 17, 19, 20, 21, 22 Ithaca 37
    Daewoo K1A1, K2 Heckler & Koch HK45, Mk 23, USP IZ-109
    FAMAS SIG Sauer Pro, P220, P226 Kel-Tec KSG
    FB Tantal Zastava CZ 99 Mossberg 590A1
    FN F2000, FAL, FNC, SCAR Remington Model 870
    Heckler & Koch G3, G36, HK33, HK416 Saiga-12
    IMI Galil, ACE, Tavor SPAS-12, SPAS-15
    SIG SG 550 USAS-12
    Steyr AUG Vepr-12
    Valmet M71/76/78 Winchester SXP
    vz. 58
    WASR-2
    Zastava M21, M70, M92
    Sniper rifles Designated Marksman Rifles Lever actions (because why not?)
    Accuracy International Arctic Warfare Barrett M82 Browning BLR
    Armalite AR-50 FN SCAR 20S, FNAR Henry All-Weather, Big Boy, Big Boy X, X Model, Long Ranger
    B&T APR H&K G28Z, MR308, MSG90 A2, PSG1 Marlin Model 1894, 1895, 336
    Barrett 98B/Mk22 ASR, M95, M99 IMI Galatz Mossberg 464
    Blaser R93, Tactical 2 KAC M110 SASS Winchester Model 1873, 1886, 1892, 1894, 1895, 71, 94
    Desert Tech SRS M25 White Feather
    DSR Precision DSR1 M39 EMR
    Enfield L42A1 Mk 12 SPR
    FN Ballista, Model 30 Mk 14 EBR
    H-S Precision Pro Series 2000 HTR Norinco NDM-86
    Izhmash Record IZ-180 PSL-54
    Mauser SP66 Recce Rifle
    McMillan TAC-50 SAM-R
    Mk 13 rifle Springfield M21 Tactical
    Parker-Hale 1200TX SR-25 Mk 11
    Prairie Gun Works Timberwolf Tabuk
    Remington 700, MSR, M24A2, M40A6, M2010 ESR Zastava M76, M91
    Sako TRG-22, TRG-42
    SIG Sauer SSG 2000, SSG 3000
    Steyr HS .50, SSG 08, SSG 69, SSG 82
    Zastava M93
    The Europa Barbarorum II team [M2TW] needs YOUR HELP NOW HERE!

  • #2
    I'd go with Ar15 clones, in both/either 5.56 or 7.62, for mag/parts availability and manual of arms familiarity. If I have veterans, they'll almost certainly be US veterans. This means for DM, too. BTW, the Barrett M82 is not a DM weapon.

    Pistols are much less likely o be standardized in this scenario, but I'd choose Glock 17/19 for simplicity, robustness, and parts commonality. You don tell have PDW, but a PCC that takes Glock mags would be useful, too. Now I'm up to three types of ammo, two manuals of arms, and three magazines.

    Shotgun is really niche. I've got Mossbergs and Remington's, and will stick with that. It doesn't really matter.

    Sniper rifles will likely be deer rifles, which will do 90% of what is needed. That's as likely to be a Remington as anything. I'd keep it in 7.62, for ammo commonality, even if there are rounds with more capability.

    Lever action? Why not? But why? I'd never choose one to take to a fight, if I had any other choice. It almost requires another caliber, and doesn't get me any capability. I'd rather have the PCC.

    By the way, you haven't met my cousins, so I'm not sure your assumption about not mustering a company is a good one. I think that I have 27 male first cousins of military age. Add in husbands of female cousins, grown children, a couple of harder than woodpecker lips old veteran uncles, and assorted friends and more distant relatives, I'm pretty sure I could muster a couple of platoons, if not a whole company, if the reason was right. Calling my clan would be a HUGE decision, but it would be a pretty big congregation when it was done.

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    • #3
      I have several on your lists. Be advised that a Saiga 12 does not allow you to remove the barrel. It is also heavy!

      Lever actions may be popular with Deer hunters.

      My Springfield M1A does not have a fancy rig of a M21, but it does have a stainless steel match barrel! It shoots accurately further than I can see!

      Pruitt
      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

      Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

      by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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      • #4
        In general, I would go with weapons that can swap ammunition.

        For civilians, I am assuming not much weapons knowledge. So, I would choose the shotguns. For the range of the expected encounters, they should be quite sufficient. They make a lot of scary noise and are mostly effective as long as they aim in the general direction. Also, their low rate of fire ensures that not as much ammunition will be wasted under panic-fire. Ammunition should be more interchangeable than other types of weaponry.

        Anyone with firearm experience would get a reliable AR-15, for longer-ranged targets.

        For short ranges, I would select the most numerously available personal defense weapon, with revolvers preferred over automatics if both are equally available. That way, ammo can be shared. Revolvers are less prone to jamming and lower ammo capacity will reduce ammo waste.
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        • #5
          I'd go with AR 15s as a general issue weapon. Bog standard 16in barrel guns with a quality red dot. That covers everything from room entry to 200yds easy with 300 being possible in the right hands. But 200yds is the typical maximum range of an infantry engagement in my terrain.

          Pistols aren't really overly important. 9mm in a reliable quality handgun with 3 magazines, or they can make sure they have 500rds of ammunition if they go with something different. Same with deer rifles, have at least 250rds of ammo and it doesn't matter what caliber it is.

          Shotguns would be more for table than combat use, but as they're simple and reliable I'd have 100rds of slug and 300rd of 00 buck on standby for each one to issue out to no shooters for positional defense against close threats.

          Having common ammo is a good thing until it's hard to come by. So I'd keep deer rifles, AK stuff, and odd caliber weapons in caches with ammo matching them. And go with 5.56 and 9mm as long as supply held out, but for defense use only, not hunting.

          For SAW, a HBAR AR15 with a bipod, red dot, and binary trigger. 2rds per trigger cycle would allow for semi useful bursts without burning up ammunition or making it incompatible with standard 30rd mages.

          Overall,. Looking at a team, probably wind up with something along the lines of 3 carbines and a special. Ideal would be 4 carbines as a team, and every 4th team be equipped with a SAW, shotguns, and DMR. But realistically, 2 to 3 men with carbines and 1 with an oddball gun like an sks, deer rifle, or shotgun, or PCC.
          Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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          • #6
            Originally posted by 82redleg View Post
            I'd go with Ar15 clones, in both/either 5.56 or 7.62, for mag/parts availability and manual of arms familiarity. If I have veterans, they'll almost certainly be US veterans. This means for DM, too. BTW, the Barrett M82 is not a DM weapon.
            Just realized yes the M82 is not a DM rifle, I think my list was organized by its action instead of use or caliber, so all semi-autos ended up there.

            Originally posted by 82redleg View Post
            Lever action? Why not? But why? I'd never choose one to take to a fight, if I had any other choice. It almost requires another caliber, and doesn't get me any capability. I'd rather have the PCC.
            There are lever actions chambered for .223, .243, 6.5 Creedmore and .308. You're right, I didn't mention PCC, PDW, submachine guns like the Uzi, FN PS90, Heckler & Koch MP5, Heckler & Koch UMP, Heckler & Koch MP7,


            The Europa Barbarorum II team [M2TW] needs YOUR HELP NOW HERE!

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            • #7
              Standardization is nice. I have an MAS 1936 in 7.5 French. It is staying home as it has no Safety! It was such a nice price, though!

              Pruitt
              Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

              Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

              by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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              • #8
                I'll go with 82RL. I'd stay with 5.56 in an AR. The AR10 doesn't seem to be as robust.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                  I'll go with 82RL. I'd stay with 5.56 in an AR. The AR10 doesn't seem to be as robust.
                  I wouldn't be so concerned with the 'robustness'. I'd be concerned with the weight of the gun, the weight of the ammo, and the difficulty in training someone unfamiliar with firearms in how to shoot an AR10 vice training the same newbie in shooting an AR15 and giving them a lightweight, low recoiling, and high ammunition firearm.

                  By the numbers, an AR15 in 5.56 is lower recoiling than even a 9mm PCC built on the same platform. Eugene Stoner definitely hit one of the magical balance points when he designed the rifle. Give me a clone of my personal favorite AR15 (a 5.25lb 'lightweight battle carbine' that I built this year) with a modestly good red dot like the Sig Romeo 5 that's on it....and I could teach a 12 year old who only knows that guns shoot bullets how to effectively employ the weapon system in a positional defense role....in a week or two tops. Given that it's so easy to train someone on how to shoot the rifle, and field cleaning is pretty straightforward too, it makes training someone on infantry tactics a lot quicker because you spend less time teaching them their gun and more time teaching them the movement, drills, and all the other sundries.

                  If I was prepping for 'boogaloo' and anticipating that I'd need to equip a squad.....I'd build 12 more of that specific carbine. Then buy 12 plate carriers and plates, 120 PMAGs, 12 field cleaning kits, 36 double magazine pouches, 12 camelbaks, 12 CAT Tourniquets, 12 Molle first aid kits, and call it a day.

                  Other things that might be nice to have would be, 12 of each, in order of importance:

                  Radios and headsets. "I-Comms", maybe FRS if you can't do anything else.
                  Good size knife
                  Assault-pack type backpack.
                  Modern 9mm and 3 mags, holster, and pouches (Glock 19 or similar)
                  Smoke Grenades
                  Canteens, pouches, and Canteen Cups


                  Note where the handgun is on my list of priorities. Riflemen with good rifles, ammunition, body armor, med kits, water, food, and communications are the priority. Then you start getting into the 'nice to haves' like a backup weapon....though even then a knife is more useful because of its utility uses.....
                  Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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                  • #10
                    Boy Scout compass? Small machete for a walk in the woods?

                    Pruitt
                    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                      Boy Scout compass? Small machete for a walk in the woods?

                      Pruitt
                      Really depends on circumstances. If I'm building a squad to defend the neighborhood and maybe patrol the surrounding woods or go on forays of a few miles, then no, not really. Local knowledge coupled with the roads and farm paths would be enough for navigation.

                      Now if we were moving far afield, like 20-30 miles away from base camp, then a compass would be much more useful along with good topographical maps and so on.
                      Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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                      • #12
                        Is this thread for real ? It might be an interesting exercise in theory, but is it seriously being suggested that it might be necessary to take up arms against either legal authority or armed bands of other citizens ? (Besides which,it would probably violate COVID'19 precautions ).
                        "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                        Samuel Johnson.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post
                          Is this thread for real ? It might be an interesting exercise in theory, but is it seriously being suggested that it might be necessary to take up arms against either legal authority or armed bands of other citizens ? (Besides which,it would probably violate COVID'19 precautions ).
                          I'm taking it as an exercise in theory.
                          Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post

                            I'm taking it as an exercise in theory.
                            Same here. Anyone who takes something like this seriously is just a little daft.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post
                              Is this thread for real ?
                              Ask the Afrikaners. Some of them are doing it or preparing to do it now.

                              Is the founding of the United States for real? The American Civil War? Don't look at it as armed resistance against what you know, understand, approve of, and are comfortable with. Look at it as TEOTWAWKI: The End Of The World As We Know It.

                              Could something really trigger TEOTWAWKI? If so, what? In the U.S., perhaps a national implosion due to loose fiscal policy, national disaster, illegal immigration, or some "perfect storm" combination of all three, followed by balkanization along regional lines and civil unrest.

                              It might be an interesting exercise in theory, but is it seriously being suggested that it might be necessary to take up arms against either legal authority.......
                              We celebrate that every July 4 and call ourselves patriots for doing so.

                              .......or armed bands of other citizens ?
                              The word you are looking for is "gangs."
                              "Shoot for the epaulets, boys! Shoot for the epaulets!" - Daniel Morgan

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