Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

U.S. Army Bids Farewell to .223

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    They may have him them, but where? There are plenty of ex-servicemen walking around who were shot with the 7.62x39 and the 8mm Mauser. It's not what you're shot with, but where.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by johns624 View Post
      They may have him them, but where? There are plenty of ex-servicemen walking around who were shot with the 7.62x39 and the 8mm Mauser. It's not what you're shot with, but where.
      True that, I took a couple of 76.2X39s in my left and right thigh and was back in the field 4 months later, were they 8 or nine inches higher, I would probably be in Arlington Cemetery!
      Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by johns624 View Post
        They may have him them, but where? There are plenty of ex-servicemen walking around who were shot with the 7.62x39 and the 8mm Mauser. It's not what you're shot with, but where.
        In battle, deliberate head-shots are most difficult, and generally not advised. That aside, in combat, the goal isn't necessarily to kill one's enemy as it is to take him out of the fight, to incapacitate him, to erode his unit's combat effectiveness by compelling his comrades to care for their wounded, which always demands more effort than merely recognizing the dead.. The M855's ability to incapacitate its targets is wanting. It's not just that they're still alive after receiving multiple rounds -- it's that they're still standing, and still capable of returning fire, that's the problem. A 77gr round, if the anecdotal evidence from Afghanistan and Iraq is anything to go by, should go a long way towards improving the M16's/M4's effectiveness at incapacitating their targets.Increasing bullet mass from 62gr to 77gr strikes me as a very easy, economical, and immediately beneficial way of assisting our riflemen in their missions. It's certainly easier to do than to try to develop and introduce a new caliber and a new rifle to fire it.
        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

          In battle, deliberate head-shots are most difficult, and generally not advised. That aside, in combat, the goal isn't necessarily to kill one's enemy as it is to take him out of the fight, to incapacitate him, to erode his unit's combat effectiveness by compelling his comrades to care for their wounded, which always demands more effort than merely recognizing the dead.. The M855's ability to incapacitate its targets is wanting. It's not just that they're still alive after receiving multiple rounds -- it's that they're still standing, and still capable of returning fire, that's the problem. A 77gr round, if the anecdotal evidence from Afghanistan and Iraq is anything to go by, should go a long way towards improving the M16's/M4's effectiveness at incapacitating their targets.Increasing bullet mass from 62gr to 77gr strikes me as a very easy, economical, and immediately beneficial way of assisting our riflemen in their missions. It's certainly easier to do than to try to develop and introduce a new caliber and a new rifle to fire it.

          I was under the impression that the new M855 A1 was supposed to be much more effective than the older M855. The M855A1 was optimized for the short M4 barrels, but still be more effective in full length barreled weapons.
          "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
          Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by 17thfabn View Post

            Wasn't the XM-8 in 5.56?
            Yes and no, it had both calibers as options for the rifle, 6.8 for the Automatic Rifle and Sniper version. I handled it at Aberdeen in the museum, Dr. Atwater demonstrated all the features for me. The Army rejected it, but it was still a pretty impressive weapon. The rifle I handled was 5.56x45 but there was one in 6.8 set up as an automatic rifle with longer heavier barrel there also. The modularity was pretty impressive, barrel change, add a grenade launcher, add different optics, lights, infrared beam attachment, drum mag, etc.
            "Amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics"
            -Omar Bradley
            "Not everyone who studies logistics is a professional logistician, and there is no way to understand when you don't know what you don't know."
            -Anonymous US Army logistician

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by johns624 View Post
              They may have him them, but where? There are plenty of ex-servicemen walking around who were shot with the 7.62x39 and the 8mm Mauser. It's not what you're shot with, but where.
              True, which is a strong argument for 5.56x45 and that whole tumbling thing.
              "Amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics"
              -Omar Bradley
              "Not everyone who studies logistics is a professional logistician, and there is no way to understand when you don't know what you don't know."
              -Anonymous US Army logistician

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Trung Si View Post

                True that, I took a couple of 76.2X39s in my left and right thigh and was back in the field 4 months later, were they 8 or nine inches higher, I would probably be in Arlington Cemetery!
                4 inches higher and you would have had no reason to live....
                Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Javaman View Post

                  Yes and no, it had both calibers as options for the rifle, 6.8 for the Automatic Rifle and Sniper version. I handled it at Aberdeen in the museum, Dr. Atwater demonstrated all the features for me. The Army rejected it, but it was still a pretty impressive weapon. The rifle I handled was 5.56x45 but there was one in 6.8 set up as an automatic rifle with longer heavier barrel there also. The modularity was pretty impressive, barrel change, add a grenade launcher, add different optics, lights, infrared beam attachment, drum mag, etc.
                  Modular weapon systems have been around since the early 60s, but they don't pan out much.
                  Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

                    4 inches higher and you would have had no reason to live....
                    Ouch, couldn't have that.
                    Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by 17thfabn View Post


                      I was under the impression that the new M855 A1 was supposed to be much more effective than the older M855. The M855A1 was optimized for the short M4 barrels, but still be more effective in full length barreled weapons.
                      It is. As far as the 77gr OTM goes, look at who was using it...special ops...normally better shots with much more trigger time. Not saying it isn't better, but its main purpose was its longer range.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

                        Modular weapon systems have been around since the early 60s, but they don't pan out much.
                        Correct...look at the F35...

                        Comment

                        Latest Topics

                        Collapse

                        Working...
                        X