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  • Let's Talk About Dive Bombers

    But Not The Stuka's, The SB2C's, The A-24's or The SBD's

    Let's Talk About The:

    (1) Aichi B7A Ryusei "Grace"

    (2) Aichi D3A "Val"

    (3) Aichi D1A "Susie"

    (4) Henschel Hs 123

    (5) LN (Loire-Nieuport) .40

    (6) Vought SB2U Vindicator

    (7) Vultee A-35 Vengeance

  • #2
    An interesting list ya got there Duke. I am very fond of the Henschel 123, it was an amazing aircraft that performed far better than anyone could have imagined. Even had the capability to produce a demoralizing sound, via the engine, much like the later Stuka did with their sirens.
    "Every man should be his own Guru; every woman her own Gurette" ...Ed Abbey

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    • #3
      I always thought the Vultee Vengeance was a very under-rated airplane. It's biggest problem was it was too late. The area of Army dive bombers had already passed.

      Good write up about Vengeances in the IAF (Indian Air Force, RAF) during WWII.
      http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Hi...nce-Tales.html





      Observer/Gunner Station
      Eagles may fly; but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines!

      "I'm not expendable; I'm not stupid and I'm not going." - Kerr Avon, Blake's 7

      What didn't kill us; didn't make us smarter.

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      • #4
        P-47s and Hawker Typhoons were not diver bombers yet they caused tremendous damage to the Reich in some sectors virtually prohibiting road movement by day. A German infantry division surrendered to attacking P-47s in the first and probably only such incident on record. The effectiveness of the jabo makes me wonder if the dive bomber was worth the investment. Its biggest problem was that if the crew came across an experienced fighter they were finished. A single swivel mounted .30 cal facing backwards was marginally effective. On the other hand, once a P-47 dropped its bombs it could take on anything. The Soviets, being very smart people, never bothered to develop a Soviet Stuka. Pe-2 could dive bomb but its air brake sometimes failed to retract as a result of design flaws. With the brake out the crew were sitting ducks so whenever they could they dropped horizontally or from a shallow dive.
        Last edited by MonsterZero; 12 Aug 07, 00:45.

        "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
        --Frederick II, King of Prussia

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        • #5
          To the above post:

          Dive bombing was more crucial to naval warfare than land battles. Level bombing against relatively small and moving targets like ships was notoriously ineffective because of the lack of pinpoint accuracy. Torpedo bombers were vulnerable because they had to fly low and slow to make their attack runs and therefore were much less survivable.

          However, once the USN acquired the Hellcat, a fighter that could also carry bombs or rockets, they had a multi-role aircraft which made the dive bombers and torpedo bombers less crucial - though dive bombers could carry heavier bombs than fighters.

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          • #6
            Isnt the Chinese A-5 pretty much a dive bomber? I guess it just might be a regular ole bomber, but how effective has it been overall. On that note, how effective overall was the Tornado?

            ( I guess this is out of the scope you've given Duke, I apologize, I thought of it after I typed it up. But still curious enough to leave it here )

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Desert King View Post
              Isnt the Chinese A-5 pretty much a dive bomber? I guess it just might be a regular ole bomber, but how effective has it been overall. On that note, how effective overall was the Tornado?

              ( I guess this is out of the scope you've given Duke, I apologize, I thought of it after I typed it up. But still curious enough to leave it here )
              Well, what exactly are The Tornado & The Chinese A-5???????

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              • #8
                I have found the best dive bombers to be B1-RDs.
                "The will of God prevails. In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong. God cannot be for and against the same thing at the same time." Abraham Lincoln

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tredegar View Post
                  I have found the best dive bombers to be B1-RDs.
                  "Every man should be his own Guru; every woman her own Gurette" ...Ed Abbey

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tredegar View Post
                    I have found the best dive bombers to be B1-RDs.
                    Birds?????

                    That's not funny.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MonsterZero View Post
                      P-47s and Hawker Typhoons were not diver bombers yet they caused tremendous damage to the Reich in some sectors virtually prohibiting road movement by day. A German infantry division surrendered to attacking P-47s in the first and probably only such incident on record. The effectiveness of the jabo makes me wonder if the dive bomber was worth the investment. Its biggest problem was that if the crew came across an experienced fighter they were finished. A single swivel mounted .30 cal facing backwards was marginally effective. On the other hand, once a P-47 dropped its bombs it could take on anything. The Soviets, being very smart people, never bothered to develop a Soviet Stuka. Pe-2 could dive bomb but its air brake sometimes failed to retract as a result of design flaws. With the brake out the crew were sitting ducks so whenever they could they dropped horizontally or from a shallow dive.
                      Good point - you might classify them all as "ground attack" planes rather than dive bombers, as the dive bombers' time came and went by the end of 1943 IMO and were surpassed by flying jugs and IL-2s. Even the dreaded gull-winged, sirened, vertical dive craft that we won't talk about in this thread moved to horizontal attack by it's G-model.*

                      Prior to 1936, I liked the Hs 123. A good, stable platform.


                      *Sorry, can't help it - "Stuka! Stuka! Stuka! Best ever dive-bomber!"
                      "There are only two professions in the world in which the amateur excels the professional. One, military strategy, and, two, prostitution."
                      -- Maj. Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower

                      (Avatar: Commodore Edwin Ward Moore, Republic of Texas Navy)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Duke William View Post
                        Birds?????

                        That's not funny.
                        Actually,It's Hilarious
                        If you Ain't Cav,You Ain't S---

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                        • #13
                          It certainly was not a true dive bomber, but I have a bit of feeling for the old JN-4. The US Marines used it in what ammounted to dive bomb attacks in Nicargua in the early-mid 1920s. Earliest air-medevac I know of was also done there & then with a JN-4

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tredegar View Post
                            I have found the best dive bombers to be B1-RDs.
                            Originally posted by Duke William View Post
                            Birds?????

                            That's not funny.
                            Originally posted by Scout32 View Post
                            Actually,It's Hilarious
                            Yes it was quite hilarious.
                            "You can tell a lot about a fella's character by whether he picks out all of one color or just grabs a handful." -explaining why Reagan liked to have a jar of jelly beans on hand for important meetings

                            CO for 1st S.INC Shock Security Troop

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jon Jordan View Post
                              Good point - you might classify them all as "ground attack" planes rather than dive bombers, as the dive bombers' time came and went by the end of 1943 IMO and were surpassed by flying jugs and IL-2s. Even the dreaded gull-winged, sirened, vertical dive craft that we won't talk about in this thread moved to horizontal attack by it's G-model.*

                              Prior to 1936, I liked the Hs 123. A good, stable platform.


                              *Sorry, can't help it - "Stuka! Stuka! Stuka! Best ever dive-bomber!"
                              No comment . No comment especially on my favorite war bird , regardless of how worthless she was on her own. The Stuka was, IMHO, the ultimate example of the way a deadly bird of prey dive bomber should look !
                              "Every man should be his own Guru; every woman her own Gurette" ...Ed Abbey

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