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  • 120mm French mortar?

    I need help identifying this mortar. Was it used in WW II? Any info would be a big help. Thank you in advance.
    Attached Files

  • #2
    try the SPWW2 yahoo forum group thingo, theres some knowledgable people there bet they would know.
    Not lip service, nor obsequious homage to superiors, nor servile observance of forms and customs...the Australian army is proof that individualism is the best and not the worst foundation upon which to build up collective discipline - General Monash

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    • #3
      I took your advice and hit all three related SP sites. Thank you I forgot about those guys! Still looking for info!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Kevin E. Duguay
        I need help identifying this mortar. Was it used in WW II? Any info would be a big help. Thank you in advance.
        This is a 1937 prototype by Brandt. It was supposed to be produced from May 40, right after the production of 60mm and 81mm mortars would have been completed...
        Two tubes would have gone in every regimental support company.
        Range : 7000 m
        Projectile weight : 16.4 kg
        ROF : up to 10 shots per minute

        It is suposed to have been the basis for the russian 120mm mortar, later copied by the Germans.

        Both photos you linked to and this bit of information come from Stéphane Ferrard's book : "France 1940 - l'armement terrestre"

        Hope this has helped !

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        • #5
          Joel,

          Thank you very much!! I got so excited that I lost my first reply to you! A few more questions if you please?

          Were any of these mortars issued to units durring the battle of France 1940 or was development halted until after the War?

          Were the prototypes destroyed forcing the Germans to wait until they captured a Russian 120mm mortar to produce their own version?

          Is that book still in print? Is there an English version?

          Thank you again!! Im happy!

          Now I just have to remember to submit reply this time, Hmmmmm....

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Kevin,

            Ferrard doesn't mention any delivery to the army. My best guess is that there was only 1 or 2 prototypes.

            I don't know if the prototypes were destroyed or hidden, or if at that time the Germans simply were not interested with the concept of a heavy mortar...

            Ferrard's book is a must if you are interested in French 1940 equipment. It's in French only, ISBN is 2-7268-8380-X


            Cheers,
            Joël

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Joel
              Hi Kevin,

              Ferrard doesn't mention any delivery to the army. My best guess is that there was only 1 or 2 prototypes.

              I don't know if the prototypes were destroyed or hidden, or if at that time the Germans simply were not interested with the concept of a heavy mortar...

              Ferrard's book is a must if you are interested in French 1940 equipment. It's in French only, ISBN is 2-7268-8380-X


              Cheers,
              Joël
              Bienvenue au nouveau compatriote, quel jeux joues tu
              Amicalemenr
              DerWanderAncien
              The Best weapon ever:a good Joke. The Best shield ever: Humour
              JLBETIN© Aka Der Wanderer TOAW Section Leader is a █ WHQ/SZO/XG/Gamesquad® product since 01/2003
              The Birth of European Army Tournament round Three is opened

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              • #8
                The Russians loved to copy French stuff. All their in-line Yak-1/Yak-3/Yak-9 engines were modified French Gnome-Rhone designs, really good in the 1930s although somewhat dated by the time the war began. The fighter plane cannon firing through the propeller hub was a French idea (MS-406) as well. Same thing with the DP 1928 squad automatic which was originally a french LMG. Overall French WW2-ear gear and equipment was really good, the only serious problem was those 1-man tank turrets which put an impossible workload on the commander who sat in the turret.
                Last edited by MonsterZero; 19 May 04, 08:59.

                "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
                --Frederick II, King of Prussia

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                • #9
                  Thank you all very much! This information is very usefull and much appreciated.

                  Joel, if you ever want to try out Steel Panthers World at War let me know. If you already play the game let me know, I'll send you some goodies!

                  Thanks again!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MonsterZero
                    The Russians loved to copy French stuff. All their in-line Yak-1/Yak-3/Yak-9 engines were modified French Gnome-Rhone designs, really good in the 1930s although somewhat dated by the time the war began. The fighter plane cannon firing through the propeller hub was a French idea (MS-406) as well. Same thing with the DP 1928 squad automatic which was originally a french LMG. Overall French WW2-ear gear and equipment was really good, the only serious problem was those 1-man tank turrets which put an impossible workload on the commander who sat in the turret.
                    the dewoitine D520 was a good fighter too, problem as production was good they were mostly kept on reserve , because French GQG was thinking of a long attrition war, not a one week one . Yes one week as from 10 may to 17th may the war for France was over

                    Der Wander****innStupidGenerals
                    The Best weapon ever:a good Joke. The Best shield ever: Humour
                    JLBETIN© Aka Der Wanderer TOAW Section Leader is a █ WHQ/SZO/XG/Gamesquad® product since 01/2003
                    The Birth of European Army Tournament round Three is opened

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Kevin,

                      You bet I know SPWAW ! I was part of the beta test team for v1.0 and was responsible for the French OOB (both good and bad sides) in this version.
                      Now I've shelved it (the "I go-You go" system gets a bit old and awkward IMHO) and am more in the Combat Mission crowd (beta tester and scenario designer for all three games in the series). I have recently tried POA2 but despite many good ideas the absence of adequate testing was a disaster. V2.01 made it playable but still not up to the level of quality a commercial game is expected. Fortunately, Scott Hamilton seems committed to improve it and maybe things will get better with v2.02 coming now... I certainly hope so because I think this game has a huge potential and it would be a shame to leave it in its presently unfinished state.


                      Hi Der Wanderjlbetin !

                      Merci de m'accueillir dans ce temple de la simulation de combat moderne !
                      Je joue principalement à CMAK, mais je me suis remis à Tacops récemment et j'essaye (avec beaucoup de peine pour l'instant) de comprendre les subtilités de POA2. J'espère que la v2.02 va en améliorer la jouabilité, d'autant plus qu'il y a maintenant des forces françaises dans la database !
                      Et toi, à quoi joue-tu ?

                      Cheers,
                      Joël

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jlbetin
                        the dewoitine D520 was a good fighter too, problem as production was good they were mostly kept on reserve , because French GQG was thinking of a long attrition war, not a one week one . Yes one week as from 10 may to 17th may the war for France was over

                        Der Wander****innStupidGenerals
                        Interesting. Did the French strategic plans predict another trench war going on forever or a war of maneuver & movement? I know about the static defenses of the Maginot but in Belgium French forces actually launched an offensive.

                        "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
                        --Frederick II, King of Prussia

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Joel
                          Kevin,


                          Hi Der Wanderjlbetin !

                          Merci de m'accueillir dans ce temple de la simulation de combat moderne !
                          Je joue principalement à CMAK, mais je me suis remis à Tacops récemment et j'essaye (avec beaucoup de peine pour l'instant) de comprendre les subtilités de POA2. J'espère que la v2.02 va en améliorer la jouabilité, d'autant plus qu'il y a maintenant des forces françaises dans la database !
                          Et toi, à quoi joue-tu ?

                          Cheers,
                          Joël
                          A TOAW COW, Je realise actuellement 2 scenarios qui sont symétriques
                          voir les liens ci-dessous

                          http://www.warfarehq.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6375
                          http://www.warfarehq.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6665
                          http://www.warfarehq.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6957

                          J'ai cherché partout POA2, pas trouvé chez nous

                          A bientôt

                          Der WanderViveLaSimulation
                          The Best weapon ever:a good Joke. The Best shield ever: Humour
                          JLBETIN© Aka Der Wanderer TOAW Section Leader is a █ WHQ/SZO/XG/Gamesquad® product since 01/2003
                          The Birth of European Army Tournament round Three is opened

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MonsterZero
                            Interesting. Did the French strategic plans predict another trench war going on forever or a war of maneuver & movement? I know about the static defenses of the Maginot but in Belgium French forces actually launched an offensive.
                            MZ to give you the reality of the French headquarter in 1939/40, here is a conclusion of a great French general at the end of 1940

                            We made the 1940 war with the army of 1918.

                            Lack of imagination
                            Lack of confidense on Army Inteligence (in april they inform General Gamelin that German will atack on Sedan
                            Lack of responsitvity

                            Information took 48 hours from 1st line to GQG and return

                            etc....

                            Once again the French soldiers did fight very well, in Lille by instance the French defenders received the Honor War from German for their feirce resistance.

                            No problem was in High level of Army Head Quarter, all those officers were lieutnant or Captain in the WWI and they were mentally blocked by what they saw. For them war could be only a long term attrition one.

                            And the image of French surrendering was coming from mid june 1940 where Marshall Pétain told on Radio that resistance to enemy is non sense and he think to ask armistice to Germans. At this time the French moral was destroyed and soldiers refuse to fight for a lost cause and surrenders.

                            They lost the capacity to think on a movement war.

                            Der WanderSigh
                            Last edited by jlbetin; 26 May 04, 13:42.
                            The Best weapon ever:a good Joke. The Best shield ever: Humour
                            JLBETIN© Aka Der Wanderer TOAW Section Leader is a █ WHQ/SZO/XG/Gamesquad® product since 01/2003
                            The Birth of European Army Tournament round Three is opened

                            Comment

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